[pause] 01:24 Speaker 1: Alright. A very, very, very good evening. We see a lot of you have already joined us. Just say a "Hi" in the comments. Just leave a "Hi" in the comments, so we know that you're here. Great. So today... So today, I am joined by an acclaimed writer who's written numerous books for young children. She's a philanthropist and the co-founder of Pratham Books. Rohini Nilekani Ma'am, it is such a pleasure to host you today on our platform. Thank you so much for joining us. 02:07 Rohini Nilekani: Thank you, I'm so pleased to be here. I've heard a lot about GurgaonMoms and I'm very excited about our session today. 02:14 S1: Oh my, you just made my evening, probably my whole entire weekend. Thank you so much Ma'am. [chuckle] 02:21 S1: It means a lot when it comes from you, but we are also excited for another reason, about the launch of your new book. Congratulations. 02:28 RN: Yeah, yes, yes see. I can't help showing it. I love it and I hope children will love it too. 02:32 S1: It's lovely. It just looks so lovely. I mean I just love the title, "The Hungry Little Sky Monster". I think it has everything that a kid likes, the hungry little monster and he's no ordinary monster. He is a sky monster. And I think I saw in the book cover, there's a picture of a moon as well. I think everybody's favorite is that. And this is published by Juggernaut. 02:54 RN: Juggernaut, yes. 02:54 S1: Please take us through the book, Ma'am. 02:57 RN: Sorry. 02:58 S1: Take us through the book. 03:00 RN: So this book is for toddlers. I mean two to five years old, inspired by my first grandson Tanush... 03:08 S1: Okay. 03:09 RN: Because all children all over the world are always asking their mothers and fathers about why the moon waxes and wanes. So I created a new little fable for him and children like him all around the world, but especially in India, about why the moon waxes and wanes. That's what the... 03:26 S1: It's one of the most intriguing things at that age. Isn't it? 03:29 RN: Yes. And then it allows parents to guide them into the science of it. But you begin with a fantasy, you draw in the child, and then as the child gets more interested, you can talk about science and how the world turns and the moon turns around it and things like that. 03:45 S1: Lovely. Lovely. So we all know about your Sringeri Srinivas Series as well, right, but now you have your first book with Juggernaut. 03:56 RN: Yes. 03:56 S1: So did that have an influence on your writing style? 04:00 RN: No, I don't think so. I just decided for a change to venture outside the Pratham Books zone. Of course, I'll continue to write for Pratham Books, Sringeri will live on, as will other books, and just, in fact, just today put together another book for Pratham Books, but I thought... I know Chiki Sarkar for a very long time. I know she's a brilliant editor and publisher. So I wanted to do something with her and she wanted to do a children's line as well. So it was perfect when I called her and read this out, she said, "Let's do this." And she really helped with making the book better, and we got this marvelous illustrator and here we are. 04:38 S1: How lovely. So, which is what they say, when women come together, magic happens. 04:43 RN: Ah, you're right. It's Megha, actually Megha, Bonita, Chiki, myself, four women. 04:49 S1: How lovely. How lovely. 04:50 RN: Yeah. I never thought of that till you said it. 04:52 S1: [chuckle] So besides being a child author, like we mentioned, you're also the co-founder of Pratham Books which is a leading non-profit, bringing story books to children across India. I mean what a lovely initiative it is. So you're clearly very passionate about taking stories to kids. 05:11 RN: Yes. 05:12 S1: What is the story behind that? 05:13 RN: Right. It's a personal story, like most stories can be, personal expanding to universal. Because I was lucky enough, like I hope many of you have been, to spend my childhood between the pages of books, okay. Literally it was such a joy and such a bliss. We used to go down to the little library Kamal Circulating Book House, and pick up whatever books we could. It was a few paisa. I mean you young people won't even know. There was no internet, no computers, no mobile phones, no TV even, hardly any TV. So books were our major, major source of entertainment, inspiration, enjoyment. And I want... I really wanted to democratize that joy, which I had, to the rest of India because I was working with the Pratham network and we had created lots of readers, but they literally didn't have enough to read. Do you know that in India, we still have very few books for our 300 million children? It has changed a lot in the last 15 years, many publishers, many things happening in many languages. But that's why we set up Pratham Books to put a book in every child's hand. 06:23 S1: Yeah, that's a beautiful motto that I saw. In fact, when you were talking about how there used to be a time when there was no television and the only entertainment that we had was books, but today, with my child, it's always... There are so many distractions. There's so many avenues. One is the video games and then the Internet, the kind of exposure that they have. On one side, I'm extremely happy for the exposure that they get because of the reach that they have. If they want to see NASA then they can go to a NASA website and access it. That's beautiful, which we never dreamt, which we never could even dream about, right? But on the other side, it is the amount of distraction that they have, and every parent is struggling with that. What is your advice for parents like us who're struggling with this thing now? 07:15 RN: Yeah. No, the more I get to know about it, first of all, I want to say hats off to all you digital age moms and pops also. And, I really salute you because I know how hard it must be for all of you. I am now safely a grandmother, so I don't have as much responsibility. Grandparents can just do all the fun stuff, but I understand how difficult it must be for all of you to have especially digital screens everywhere around your child, right? And the kind of just the attention deficit syndrome, that is coming into society, move fast, move fast, next image, next image, next thing, right? So I would say to all of you, first of all, don't be hard on yourselves, okay? First of all, don't be so anxious, "Oh my God, what am I going to do?" I think instead of saying, "How can I stop my child" because it's too late to stop all the myriad screens in their lives, I think make that little extra effort to introduce really fun, real books, physical books at a very, very, very early age. 08:16 RN: Now, if your child is already older, doesn't matter it's still not too late. Bring in books that you yourself would like to read, even if you're not a reader. Start with something simple. There are many... As I'm sure you all do some curations as well, there are many people helping. Moms saying, "These are the five-six good books you can look at". Get physical books into children's lives as early as possible, and after that, don't worry, because they will continue their reading habit on screens, but a lot of new research, one by the Literacy Trust of the UK shows that to set a foundational habit, physical books are very important, but to continue and nurture the habit a mix of digital and physical is fine, so don't worry too much, if they're reading online. If they are watching too much of other stuff online, then I think a family must discuss how much time is okay to play video games, how much time is okay to just randomly be searching the net, right? Those are disciplines. Just like in the old days, we had to worry about what time will I come home from playing endless French cricket, okay? There were rules [chuckle], so similarly make rules together that you all can believe in and keep. 09:30 S1: That is true, that is true. Very nice advice ma'am but how can... So there is a question from a member, "How can I help my child discover reading genres that interest them? Also, how do I get them to try out new genres?" In fact, I also face this difficulty with my son, for him to, you know, just to push him to try new genres, so how do we do that? 09:53 RN: No. Yeah, no that's a very good question. One is just leave some things lying around because even when my son, my son was... My son and daughter were very big readers, but sometimes they got stuck in one genre, right? And I wanted them like you to have other experiences, and sometimes I would go and buy books from something else, read it myself. If I liked it, I'd just leave it. If I tell the children, please read this, you can be 100% sure, they will not read it. Or they will read it and say, it's horrible even if they liked it, so I would say leave it somewhere prominently and see what happens, but again, don't pressure yourselves too much. Please, your generation pressurizes itself too much. If they read only one genre today, they may still go somewhere else tomorrow. Your job is to present diversity, okay? Your job is to present diversity, but even conversations that are diverse. Today, if you're talking science, tomorrow talk about the arts, right? Today, if you want to introduce politics, tomorrow, think of economics, and economics doesn't mean you have to write a PhD, even talking about the price of something is economics, right? 10:58 S1: True, true, very true. 10:58 RN: So, introduce different areas, so they'll get interested. Someone will be interested in space, someone will be interested in oceans, somebody will be interested in something else, and then you can gently lead them. But I'll tell you one more thing. Get your children to buy books, which they don't have. Again, you don't have to spend a fortune and gift them to someone else, even if they are not going to read them. That way, they find something new and something different for themselves. 11:25 S1: Right, right, right. No, that's interesting, yeah. So what do you insist? Should I pick up books for kids myself or should I allow them to... Should I allow him to pick up his own books, because my only thing is when I allow him to pick up his own books, because I've tried that, you know, I used to... Whenever I go to Chennai, which is my hometown, I just send him to Landmark and he can go pick whatever book he wants, and then every time he comes back with the books, I'm rather shocked, I'm never happy because it's all the similar genre. I want him to read more of the mythical stuff. Mythology is what I want him to read but he's into Harry Potter, so things like that. So how do I balance that? 12:12 RN: Mythology? Harry Potter is a marvelous combination of mythologies. So again, we can't force children to read, right? I think you're so lucky if your child is already reading Harry Potter because Harry Potter is pretty complex. It has actually many levels of philosophy of modern questions, of ancient questions, all in it. So if your child is fully and fluently reading Harry Potter, it's going to lead him to other things as he grows older. He doesn't have to read all genres at once. We read so much of Enid Blyton and Enid Blyton and Enid Blyton and Enid Blyton. Even today I read Enid Blyton. [laughter] So don't worry. See, the ability to read fluently and decode meaning is what parents can give. After that, the child has to discover for himself or herself the rest of the world, that the rest of the world is made of many, many splendored hues. And if I focus on only one color, I'm reducing myself, right? They will come to that understanding. You present the diversity, but don't force it down their throats. Because they may rebel and when they rebel, then they may harden their stance against any genre you like, maybe mythology or something else. So that's my firm belief after 61 years on this planet. [laughter] 13:34 S1: I will listen to it, then. [laughter] Yeah. So, okay. So, we often keep hearing about healthy reading habits. Are there unhealthy reading habits? This is a question from a member. But I know one unhealthy reading habit, because my son, he always asks permission. He says, "Amma, only on Saturday can I read on the table?" And I just don't like that because I feel that table is a place where we get to interact with each other. So, are there any other unhealthy reading habits that we should be watchful about? 14:09 RN: I don't know. I think that... [chuckle] My mother used to scold me when I wouldn't leave the book. Okay, like if I'm supposed to do... She used to give me a chore, dusting the furniture in one room, and I had to lay the table, but because I couldn't leave a book if it's at some... And I would carry the book and behave like I've been really being mistreated by my mother to have to lay the table. I think when it goes that far, I think you have to pull people back. My mother used to say, "That's fine. You can read. Put that book down, finish this, and of course, after dinner, you can go back to your book." So, that... Don't allow the book to come in the way of social interaction. But again, if you're too strict about it, they will rebel. Now, my children sometimes do rebel if I say, "Don't drink and... " And they're not even children, they're full-blown adults, but sometimes they want their iPads at the dinner table. And I've realized that forcing it just results in extremely stilted dinner time conversations, which defeat the purpose anyway. So, if your child is so mature as to ask for only one day as a treat, well, I'll tell you one thing, reading and eating, are just the biggest joy together. Eating something delicious and reading a marvellous book, when they're combined, there's some beautiful quote about it, I wish I'd kept it, is the biggest joy of life, so don't deprive your kids that much. 15:30 S1: I wish my son was part of this conversation. He would've fallen in love with you. [chuckle] 15:35 RN: [15:35] ____ I would call him up and tell him. 15:37 S1: [chuckle] But I'm gonna show him, I'm gonna show him this live later. So, there is this one parent who's talking about how sometimes when the parents are not readers themselves, because she also mentions that reading is a habit, which is usually an inspiration. So, if the parents are not readers, then what are your tips for them? 15:57 RN: Yeah, first of all, I would say congratulations. Even if you're not a reader for any reason, you have recognized that you want your child to be a reader. That being a reader, gifting a reading life is one of the best things you can do for your children. So, congratulations that you have recognized that and want to participate in that. So again, don't feel guilty about you not being a reader. I think, as I said, pick up a age-appropriate, really good material and introduce him to it. Today also, it's not too late for you to become a reader of a child's book, right? You don't have to read 200, but you can surely read two. I think you reading the book, even if you're not a reader yet, will really help the child, and read with the child if your child is young. And you can both have a conversation around the book. And that's going to help a lot. And as I said before, try to keep lots of books, that you can find different books because a child will find what he likes or she likes. And don't judge yourself, don't feel guilty. It's never too late to become a reader, even a reader of children's books. Just read my three-year-old book for toddlers, because there is a three-year-old inside you even now. So, find that toddler in you and start... 17:12 S1: Very true. [chuckle] Very true. I always find the toddler in me when I go to Disney World, I'm sure I will find it even when I open a book, a three-year-old book, right? Yeah. Okay. Is it too late to introduce reading as a habit in a teenager? A question from a member again. 17:29 RN: It's going to be difficult if a child absolutely refuses to read, but it's never impossible. There's no such thing. They're discovering more and more and more about the neuroplasticity of the brain, that the brain can readjust itself and learn to do new things in a surprisingly... For a surprisingly long time. And teenage still falls within the age when there is still hyperplasticity in the brain. So, don't despair on it. Maybe have a conversation, maybe present research. I've been writing a lot about this, and you'll be able to find a lot online about how being a reader, being exposed to text and literature can really improve your own prospects in life. There is enough literature now to show this. So, maybe teenagers will be swayed by that. But of course, they'll be mostly swayed by their peers. Is there somebody in the group who likes to read who can maybe be set up a conversation, right? Where about some story that is irresistible. So, these are the ways I can think of. But it's never too late. It may be difficult, but there's no such thing as too late. I don't believe that at all. 18:43 S1: Definitely, yeah. And is there a good age to introduce... 18:46 RN: And JK Rowling brought so many children to first time reading because it became a peer thing. "You haven't read Harry Potter? Oh my goodness." You know? 18:54 S1: Oh, yeah. 18:55 RN: So, then you want to read, and then you want to know what this boy is doing and what Hermione is doing. And it made a lot of children into readers. So, find something like that for your child, for your teenager. 19:07 S1: So, interesting that we spoke about Harry Potter. Do you think, are there enough number of books for Indian kids which speaks about Indian context and something which they find relatable? 19:21 RN: Right. So, certainly at Pratham Books, that's what we try to do, right? Because otherwise, most of the books sold in India were English, or at the most Hindi. But we have hundreds of other languages. 150 million children in this country know how to read in a regional language. They deserve stories. They deserve wonderful books that they can afford to buy and are accessible. So through Pratham Books, we started that process and many other publishers also joined in. Today, you know on StoryWeaver, which is a free thing of Pratham Books right now, after I left Pratham Books, the team did even better and really pushed the digital agenda forward. You can find books there related to Indian culture, art, everything, free, absolutely free in up to 200 languages. So, it's a huge, rich resource for all of you. Parents can no longer say we don't have Indian books. There are plenty of them on StoryWeaver and in the market. So, please use them, please read some, enjoy them yourselves, and your children will follow. 20:27 S1: Yeah. 20:27 RN: But there is more scope. Honestly, to be honest, there's a lot more scope for Indian writers to come out and write books for teenagers and slightly older children, chapter books that they can thoroughly enjoy and culturally relate to. 20:44 S1: Yes, yeah. Okay, so we have... Other than your grandson Tanush, who else is your inspiration when it comes to writing? 20:56 RN: Well, you know I... Because through Pratham, through Akshara, through all my other work at EkStep we met... I mean not in the pandemic, but before that, I meet a lot of children, wherever I go I carry books with me and I distribute them, so I go to Kabini, I go to forests a lot. And outside the forests in the buffer zones, a lot of young people live, little little kids who don't really have access to a library, so I take a lot of books and distribute them. And they always have... If I sit with them, they'll always ask questions, so I focus on their questions, the why, the why, why girls and the why, why boys of India, I focus on them and their conversations, usually littler kids, I still haven't learnt how to write for older kids, it's tougher I think. But they inspire me to. 21:44 S1: How lovely, yeah. So Ma'am, you have been... You're a very passionate storyteller, I was taking a look at your website where I saw those photographs, and each one of them just went on to show how passionate you are about it, you're completely into it. So is there anything that you would want to tell us? Either the power of story-telling, how it has influenced these kids, or what has been your experience as a storyteller, and how can it be... I feel it can be a powerful tool, even for a parent, as a parent, it can be a very powerful tool to influence and to groom my child. Please throw some light on that. 22:23 RN: Absolutely. See, we are a nation of storytellers, right? Through generations through an oral tradition, your grandmother, her grandmother, everyone's been telling stories of the epics, we've passed down so many stories of this subcontinent to our children through oral story telling, and while of course, text has become very important in the 21st century, oral story telling compliments the skills that we need to develop to be able to keep lifelong learning and listening going. Listening has become such an important tool. Today, the world is so polarized, right? People don't talk to each other across any divide, it could be cast, community, politics, geography, it could be anything. If you like pink and I like green then we won't talk to each other, it's become that polarized. We have to break down these polarizations. For that listening is a very important tool and a very important skill that we have to develop in young people, and what better way to listen than to listen to stories, listen to stories told by somebody whom you love at home. 23:26 RN: Became a storyteller, you don't have to be the best one. My grandmother Atya, as we called her, was a marvelous storyteller, she used to tell us stories of Dnyaneshwar, of Tukaram, of all the Bhakti Saints of Maharashtra and she used to make us weep every day, and it was such a marvelous experience. It was inspirational, it taught us empathy, it taught us how to listen to repetitive stories, and helped us to build a sense of the world. So start telling stories, you're never too old to listen and never too young to tell a story. 23:58 S1: Yeah, I'm just... I'm lucky because my husband is a good storyteller, and I keep listening to him and I'm like, "I wish I had that skill," but I'm sure it's there in every one of us, it's just that we have to take that effort, that extra effort to... 24:12 RN: And luckily today you can find storytellers at the tip of your fingers, right? In the digital world there are such marvelous storytellers, there are so many podcasts that you can expose the children to, so if you can't be a storyteller, you can borrow a storyteller into your family. 24:30 S1: That is true, that is true. So Ma'am, let's come back to your book now once again, "The Hungry Little Sky Monster", so if you could just open the page [24:42] ____. 24:43 RN: I hope you like it. You know how beautifully Megha has done the illustrations, this one looks quite a bit... I don't know if you can see... 24:49 S1: We can. 24:50 RN: A bit like my grandson, and then I'll show you her... What I think is one of her most beautiful illustrations, shall I read you a small excerpt from it? 25:01 S1: Oh, that will be perfect. Yes, please. 25:03 RN: This is her vision of the sky with all the comets and all the stars and everything, so it's a very beautifully produced book, congratulations to Juggernaut, and that really matters to little ones. So let me read to you what I wrote, "Mama, look at the moon shining bright in the sky, I want to go to the moon, how I wish I could fly. Why does the moon grow big and then get so small, and on some nights, why is there no moon at all? Why can't I become small and then suddenly tall? I don't understand this moon at all." Mama laughs and hugs me tight, "Sleep now I'll tell you why another night," but then I begin to think and think and I cannot sleep, not one little wink, maybe a hungry little sky monster couldn't find anything fun to eat, and the full moon so shiny and so near looked like a yummy treat. He nibbled at bits of the moon that night, soon he slunk past the stars for another bite, then the sky monster feasted at every dinner, and the poor old moon got thinner and thinner. The sky monster pecked at the silvery light until there was nothing left to bite, when he saw the moon was gone he got a big fright, "Oh, what have I done? I must set it all right." And then we find out what he does to get the moon back into the sky after he has eaten it all up. 26:33 S1: Oh, that's an adorable looking monster, [laughter] and a delightful picture book I must say Ma'am. 26:40 RN: Thank you. 26:41 S1: And this book is from Juggernaut once again, and the book can be... Could you let us know where the book is available? 26:48 RN: It's available on Amazon, Flipkart, in book stores, it's available online, I think they're giving a discount right now. 26:54 S1: Okay, that's great. So I'll do my homework and I'll post the link in the comment section for... 27:00 RN: Thank you so much for that, thank you so much for that. 27:01 S1: Yeah, thank you once again, Ma'am for your time, and it was lovely interacting with you. 27:07 RN: Thank you for having me. All the best to your parents, stay safe, enjoy reading with your kids, and allow them to just have a completely joyous childhood with books and stories. 27:20 S1: Definitely, we'll remember whatever you have said Ma'am, thank you, thank you so much. 27:24 RN: You're welcome. Thank you, bye-bye now. 27:27 S1: Bye Ma'am. Bye.