Staying Grounded : The Spiritual Practices of Social Leaders

Note: This episode is produced for the ear and designed to be heard, not read. Readers are encouraged to listen to the show to get the full experience. The transcripts are meant as support documents and may not include inclusions from the day of recording and may contain errors. The audio version is the final version of the show. 

HOST

Welcome to Grassroots Nation, a podcast from Rohini Nilekani Philanthropies, a show in which we dive deep into the life, work, and guiding philosophies of some of our country’s greatest leaders of social change.

This is a series of short episodes that shine a spotlight on themes that arose from the conversations with the guests of Grassroots Nation. These episodes showcase what shaped their thinking, their relationships, and how small acts form the basis of collective action. 

A lifetime devoted to public service demands a certain kind of mental toughness–it’s a fundamental requirement to keep up the drive and the belief in the possibility for positive change. In this episode you will hear some of India’s most inspiring social leaders talk about the practices that keep them grounded– from spiritual and religious influences to the activities and pastimes that have helped them stay inspired.

Let’s begin with Dr H Sudarshan, the founder of the Karuna Trust. Dr Sudarshan is a deeply respected doctor, social worker and activist who has worked for over four decades with the Soliga tribes. In the interview he speaks about how deeply connected he, his person, and his mind is to the work he does and the environment he lives in.  Listen to this clip where he talks about his spiritual influences and the way it has guided his approach to service.

H Sudarshan

Vivekananda gave me a mantra. They only who live for others rest are more dead than alive. And he also gave me my philosophy of life, that is as long as millions live in hunger and poverty, I hold every man at traitor who having been educated at their expense pays not least heed to them. Government spends about several lakhs of rupees on the education. For my education at least 20-30 lakhs is.

And where does money come? Every matchbox if a tribal buys the tax, commercial tax, most of it comes from the commercial. It’s people’s money. So what Vivekananda says is so that education, that knowledge I have got, it should be given back to the people and I believed in it 100%. So I had a passion to do this work and in the end I also had some self-awareness as a spiritual quality through which I could detect all my defects also.

You become aware of your selfishness, whether you are doing this work for name and fame, or whether you are egoistic and you want to promote yourself or your teamworker. All this I was fully conscious. I had all the weaknesses. But that’s where the work. This is called Karmi Yoga. I dedicated myself to working for the poor. By doing that, the tribals and the people have given me much more valuable to me. And that transformation was my expansion of my own identity. 

I was myself, Sudarshan alone, then my family. Then when I identified with the Soliga tribes, I literally for 20,000 people. I worked with them and they were part of my life. And I worked like that for about 15 years, 20 years. Then I scaled up my activity to other tribal areas. Then it became one lakh population. Then suddenly I was called to become the task force chairman in Karnataka Health Task Force.

So there I identified with six crores of people. I just handed over VGKK to all my second line of leadership. Then they managed well in a way it was good for me to detach from that and I identified with them. Then I had opportunities to work at the national level. Then I really identified with all the poor 1.2 billion people and how to do the health care for them. So I was in that.

And the ultimate expansion of that was I had an opportunity to sit in the United Nations. At that time, I felt I was a citizen of the world and I should also look at the entire all the people. Now I feel I am a citizen of the world. So this also expanded my own expansion of my love and my connectivity connectedness to the entire humanity. That evolution happened in me and.

Of course, the final culmination happened recently, where I felt that I am one with the universe, one with the entire cosmos, and that’s why my lifestyle is I am totally detached from my work, but the work is going on very well. I had a lot of attachment to whatever I gave worth to. But this transformation detachment came. 

Now I believe in others– the second line of leadership including Venkat who is now the secretary. I am the president just advising them wonderful work is going on and this year’s budget is about 95 crores for Karuna Trust which just money is also coming. Human resources are coming. Thats when I sort. Every work is part of the divine, the cosmos, the nature, nature. For me nature and God are not different. So you you can call it nature but that nature is feminine. So I am a worshipper divine with her that nature is divine and she does everything. And I am just participate in it. I participate in this. So when you are participating, there is no question of hierarchy, there is no question of egoism.

I think I have understood a lot about my own self knowledge. I call it understanding my body, my prana. Prana is the metabolic system, the physiology which I learned all that prana and the next is the mind, my own mind, my unconscious mind, my conscious mind. I studied psychology to understand myself.

So understanding all the various problems, we have repressions, we have the masks we wear, the fragmentation of the self which happens we watertight compartments we live and the drives we have the passions, how to flourish that and unfold yourself. These are the two levels, 3 levels which is known. But there is what is another dimension faculty in as the spiritual dimension.

Divinity in us, the Athma, as it is called, unfolding that discovery of that and which is the source of all what I was seeking. I always have been seeking something and I have finally discovered that is within…. 

HOST

Dr Al Fernandes is best known as the founder of MYRADA, one of India’s most well respected NGOs working on livelihood issues across South India. His early life in the Jesuit tradition shaped the way he lived and worked.  Here he talks about his early adulthood spent at a seminary and the influences of his family.

Vidya

So how much of that interplay of philosophy, religion, diocesan, Jesuit tradition influenced your subsequent growth as a person concerned with poverty and the need to work on issues related to poverty? 

Al Fernandez

Good question, Vidya. You do mention this interplay between diocesan and Jesuit influences. But there was a 3rd major influence in my life and that was my family tradition. Now, for 200 years, my family has provided priests and nuns to the Catholic Church. It’s part of the tradition. And I, having been brought up by my grandparents since my parents were abroad, was expected to carry on that tradition. When I was about 14 years old, I think, I joined the seminary- it was the preparatory (seminary). After that, you go to a major seminary, to study for the priesthood. Now there are many seminaries in India, many that train the diocesan clergy. Diocesan clergy is those priests who run the parishes and all the rest of it. But there is one major seminary, it’s called the Papal university which was located in Candy Salon for years and which shifted to Pune, just before I was selected to go there. This university could give degrees which were recognised by various universities and it had students from all over the world. So there was a rich interplay of people. So sometimes you had the best football team because we had the Italians and Spaniards and best hockey team, we had Karachi people but there was also good interaction. 

Now that was run by the Jesuits. Now what is the major major difference between that Jesuit training and the training you got in other Diocesan seminaries and this is this – the Jesuits not only taught us theology like scripture, which the priests are supposed to do, but they tried to give you reasons from history to buttress your faith. They just didn’t say believe this, believe that but they gave you reasons, and they had to be verifiable reasons. 

They also quickly absorbed the teachings of the Vatican Council. Which was at that time when I studied in the late 50’s, early 60s, had come out with very open Catholic Church. It was open to Indian philosophy. Many of us studied Shankara, we studied Basavanna, in fact, I wrote a paper on Basavanna, since I was from Karnataka, and Mahatma Gandhi was very popular. But they also stress social justice, the Jesuits. Let me give you an example- see you can draw quotations from any religion to justify anything. As we say, the devil can justify himself from scripture. Now you have this in the Bible, the story of Jesus being the Good Shepherd who looks after the sheep and looks after everybody. But you also have the story of Jesus, who whipped the money lenders and chased them out of the temples and said, “You have made the House of God the den of thieves.” That is a different picture of Jesus. Now it all depends on which picture you follow.  And the Jesuits followed both, so you had a choice to make. They just didn’t keep to the Good Shepherd, which is usually the dominant theme in the Catholic Church. You never hear about Jesus chasing out people. So you had first Jesuit, second the Vatican Council. 

There was another influence, see, like any university, apart from the lectures, you have a lot of extra curricular things going on. So you have one group doing Indian art, one Indian philosophy, somebody doing something. And you also had a group who ran some courses on students who had been in the young Christian workers movement. Now the young Christian Workers Movement was originated in Belgium and France, where workers were organised in groups. And the methodology was see, judge, and act. Now you saw, not just look, there is a big difference between looking and seeing. Then you would judge in the context of your belief, and you act it, and then you review your action. And one of the instruments of this methodology was keeping a diary. So all those who joined this group had to keep a diary and note every day what they saw. And it was… it helped us a lot. So this also had an influence in my life. 

HOST

Often the most important way to stay grounded when thinking about and working on serious social issues is to spend time in the wilderness. In the next two clips you will hear from Professor Madhav Gadgil, one of India’s most important environmental scientist and H Sudarshan speak about their love for being in nature. 

Madhav Gadgil

That was fun! Kailash and I, you know, we were always willing to go around if it is necessary on bikes, bicycles, I mean, not motor bikes. And in several places we saw the people were scandalised that these supposedly senior academics were quite willing to get on to their bikes at Go and we did !

Nulkar

Yeah, one thing I forgot to mention to our audience is as a youth you were also very athletic – you participated in events for represented Pune University, so I’m sure the motorcycle riding love for that must be coming somewhere from your sports part… 

Madhav Gadgil

I was able to undertake it effectively because I was good athlete as I said maybe,  actually I held at one time the Maharashtra state under 14 and under 16 high jump records and Pune University high jump record … I was a pretty good athlete. So I was able to – some of the colleagues they when I was writing this autobiography – One of them was Devi Prasad from Sulia in Dakshin Kannada and he said he remembers that he which was part of our decentralised monitoring kind of network, he and his students came to Tamhini Ghat, you know here, these hills here nearby and we were walking and he said you rapidly climbed up and calmly you were waiting for us to follow and all of us, we were much younger than you were. I was 40 also, but younger than you were but we came up panting several minutes afterwards! So yes I was therefore able to, you know, do all these things because of my love for sports and exercise.

H Sudarshan

And I discovered a new meditation, of course walking meditation, working with awareness. All these are well known, but I have discovered a swimming meditation. Really it is a one hour meditation for me to swim across. I feel I am one with Cauvery and it’s a wonderful experience. And all this is happening with a. I have established a harmony with the cosmos. So it happens in a rhythmic way and only thing there is this selfishness wants to take too much from the macrocosm, doesn’t want to give it back, but I consciously give it back. That is my passion to give it back to the society. 

Give it back to the nature, to the environment. Take what little you want and give it back. That was called Yagna. Now I discovered that the Yagna was the concept of sacrifice is not a punishment. It is willingly joyfully giving back to the nature. What you take, give it back to nature. I have established that harmony. It is called Reetha. And once you establish this harmony, your life is full of joy. 

HOST

Grassroots Nation is a podcast from Rohini Nilekani Philanthropies. For more information, visit www.rohininilekaniphilanthropies.org or join the conversation on social media at RNP_foundation.

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