This is an edited version of Rohini Nilekani’s conversation with The Centre For Effective Philanthropy. She talks about the importance of feedback, speaking truth to power and trust-based philanthropy.
We set up Rohini Nilekani Philanthropies only recently because earlier much of my philanthropy work was done through Arghyam, my foundation for water, or by directly giving cheques to various organisations. It seems to work because I don’t think we need to set up a very large foundation for the kind of work we do, which is trust-based philanthropy. Once we have identified partners, we have a very simple system of working with them and that’s what Rohini Nilekani Philanthropies is. Trust is very important to me and my team because your actions have to speak louder than your words when it comes to building trust. You have to give organisations and people time and space, because we know how complex things are on the ground and how quickly things can change. If you lock your partners into doing something in a particular way, when things change they can’t respond quickly. So, as a granter, you really have to give them that freedom, and I think that’s one of the things that helps to build trust.
In the social sector, if you want to end with trust, you have to begin with trust. I have always believed that the people I work with know much more than me about ground realities, so I genuinely try to see them as partners and not grantees. I think there is a kind of reciprocity of trust that happens immediately when they see that, and trust takes time to build. One of our experiments in India in my portfolio, where multiple philanthropic entities have come together in a relationship of trust, is the India Climate Collaborative. Climate change is such a huge issue that’s obviously affecting all of us individually and globally as well, that it was easy to find that as a common ground to bring together international foundations, who had already been doing a lot of work on this, and build a partnership with Indian philanthropists who came together for the first time in this collaborative. This is what we need to do more of, so that we can trust each other and learn from each other to be much more effective and impactful than we are individually.
CEP’s Grantee Perception Report showed that Rohini Nilekani Philanthropies is not very communicative over exactly what its intent is, which was an eye-opener and we’ll have to work on that. It was also useful to know that partners hoped for more long-term funding. That’s something we try to do, but because we have opened up new sectors we’re all still learning along the way. I’m glad that we worked with CEP on this report, and we will take the feedback seriously and hope to improve year on year. I hope more organisations find a way to really listen anonymously to their partners, so that they can get the truth. The truth is hard to tell to power – it’s very hard for grantees and partners to tell donors really what they think. So I really hope that culture gets established.
This is an edited version of Rohini Nilekani’s conversation with Mona Sinha, co-founder of Raising Change, at the Harvard India Conference 2021.
In my work over the last three decades, I’ve tried to put together a theory of change and what I have realised and tried to communicate is that in the continuum of society, state and markets, my work is primarily focused on how to build good societies or what we call in India a good Samaj. In this continuum of Samaj, Bazaar, and Sarkar, much of my philanthropic work is focused on enabling good institutions of civil society, good ethical and moral leadership, and innovation of the grassroots, because a strong society can hold both Bazaar and Sarkar to the larger public interest and also innovate constantly. As Mona Sinha mentions, the US philanthropy sector seems to be moving in this direction as well, with trust-based philanthropy where the goal is to undo systemic inequalities and help build a stronger civil society, but also allow the government to participate in a way that’s much more effective. As philanthropists, we have great responsibility in reshaping systems. With trust-based philanthropy, we lead with trust, we center relationships, we communicate with humility and curiosity, and most importantly, we redistribute power as we work towards systemic equity.
One of these areas that I began working on was with young men and boys. For 25 years, my work was focused on women, whether it was within the field of microfinance, education, or water. But as I travelled around India and started meeting young people, I found that while we had a very justified emphasis on empowering women, perhaps we also needed to understand what was happening to young men. We were not seeing them and in doing so, we were somehow forgetting to include them in our public policy and programmes to also allow them to flourish as human beings in their own right. So I started a portfolio called Young Men and Boys, but there were hardly any people working specifically with them. We started with only one organisation. I’m happy to say that in our second convening, there were 30 organisations represented including funders who are beginning to turn their attention to the question of how we can ensure a better future for everybody. We are trying to innovate with our partners and find new ways to create safe spaces for young men to talk to each other and respectfully interact with young women as well. It’s been a very sharp learning curve and I hope more people will join us because ensuring young men feel supported and safe also ensures the safety and progress for the young women we have been helping so far.
Restoring Our Connection With Nature
In terms of my philanthropy, I have a fairly wide portfolio in conservation and I’m also very invested in the preservation of the marvellous biodiversity in our country. Although India has one-third the land than the US and four times its population, we are also one of the world’s biodiversity hotspots. But this biodiversity that gives us our water, cleans our air, and that will be the future medicine for the next generations, is under threat due to climate change and the need for economic development in our country. Luckily, there are hundreds of environmental NGOs in our country that are working with local people to restore our ecology. I try to support as many of them as I can, in addition to supporting academic and research institutions that are doing long-term monitoring of our biodiversity in deserts, grasslands, mountains, oceans, and coastlines. I firmly believe that the marvellous work being done all around the country to regenerate the ecological base is at the heart of the economy as well. If we do not safeguard it, I don’t see how we can sustain a healthy economy.
We have many forest and tribal communities in India with generations of experience and knowledge, and I believe that we need to carry these people along with us while we also ensure the conservation of our forests and natural resources. The Forest Rights Act allows forest dwelling people and tribal communities of India to get pattas in forests, in order to sustainably live there as they have for many centuries. Some of these are very fraught political issues, however India has kept our biodiversity, our forests and our water sources in the face of tremendous population and land pressure. I think there is a reason for that. There is a culture of understanding the kind of sacred connection between humans and nature. Unfortunately, we don’t have the luxury of pristine conservation where half of the country flourishes without any people. To me, the most sensible and strategic decision is to carry people with us, especially those who live in our forests. Many of those communities do want to find opportunities beyond living in forests, so we have to find a way to let their knowledge and their wisdom also light the path for ecological restoration.
During this past year, I have been spending a lot of time in the Kabini forest in search of a black panther whom locals call Kariya or ‘the black one.’ For five years, I have not been able to spot him, but through my frequent visits to Kabini, I’ve begun to learn more about the forest itself. I learned about the people who dwell in and around the forest, about the Forest Department and what they have to do to keep the forests protected, and more broadly about the connection between people and the forest. Especially since the pandemic, when we have learned so much about zoonotic diseases, I think more people must understand the connections between the wild and the rest. Urban people can get pretty deracinated from the wild, and I personally enjoyed the journey of getting back in touch with nature. So many people have come to the forest searching for this black panther, but I think what we are really searching for is a way to restore the connection between nature and ourselves, so that we can restore our own well-being.
Collaborating and Co-Creating Solutions
We have seen a rise in philanthropy over the last few years in India because there have been more wealthy people in the country since the liberalisation in the early ’90s. And I think people have come to the conclusion that you can enjoy your wealth, but you really owe it to yourself and to society to give forward. After all, why do societies allow so much accumulation of private wealth? It’s because societies believe that wealth in the hands of private individuals will do at least as much good as it would have done in the hands of the government as taxation. I believe that the wealthy have a special responsibility to use their wealth for the good of society. Many of the Infosys founders have tried to give this unexpected and unprecedented wealth that we came into forward, based on our passions and interests. Having said that, everyone comes to the point in their philanthropic journey where they realise they simply cannot do it alone if they want to have maximum impact. So in India, many philanthropists are now creating collaborative platforms to work together. For example, the independent and public spirited Media Foundation was started a few years ago with about 12 donors. The idea was to support good journals and magazines, especially in the digital medium because we thought that was the next phase of journalism. Another important collaborative, called the India Climate Collaborative, has several dozen individuals and organisations who hope to work on mitigation and adaptation for climate change.
Doing serious philanthropy helps you acquire a lot of humility very fast. You realise that no matter how many great ideas you thought you had, those simply don’t work unless you co-create solutions on the ground. In India, we philanthropists stand on the shoulders of giants. The Tatas have been doing this for more than 100 years, and created a culture of listening and not just doing top-down philanthropy. Now newer philanthropists are also learning this lesson. We have so much diversity in India, where every 100 kilometers, the dialect changes along with the crops that are grown, the livelihoods practiced, the water resources, etc. So no cookie-cutter solutions will work here. We must create unified solutions, but they cannot be uniform solutions because problems have to be solved in context. I can’t sit in Bangalore and problem-solve for people in Bihar. We must listen and trust our partners, civil society or implementation partners, in order to co-create solutions.
Although I am not a techie, I have learned a lot from my husband, Nandan Nilekani, who believes that technology has to be used to solve a lot of societal, business, and government issues. I have learnt a lot from him and his team, especially over the last few years. We have built what we call Societal Platform Thinking – the idea is that in order to solve complex societal problems with impact, at scale, and with speed, we are going to have to deploy technology to create more impact and discoverability, to get people to share and learn together globally. We need technology because it amplifies the power of intent. So, if you are very careful to not be technology-led but technology-enabled, you can use technology to further societal goals. This is what we are trying to get societal and government organisations to do. Of course, there are many risks with technology and society is just beginning to grapple with how to look at issues like artificial intelligence and the algorithms that drive some of our platforms. But we must ask ourselves how we will, together as a global society, create new norms and shift some norms, and create new regulations and laws so that we have AI tools and algorithms that work for the broader public interest and not just very narrowly for a few? These are some of the things and questions and challenges that we are asking ourselves, while developing technology backbones that help create open public digital goods.
Moving to Broad-Based Philanthropy
India is an exciting place right now for intermediary organisations and retail fundraising. Small donors are increasing and I think that’s very important, rather than relying on a few big, super-rich individuals to do philanthropy. We could have a more broad-based philanthropy where active citizens are participating by giving as little as 100 Rupees to causes they care about, doing kindness to strangers, and putting passion into things they care about. The platforms that have emerged as intermediary platforms that aggregate this small funding are really exciting to see. They’ve been raising hundreds of crores, some of that from rich individuals, but a lot of that from ordinary citizens who care. For me, that is the best thing I’ve been hearing about the Indian philanthropy sector. We must thank all the aggregators who have made this much easier than it used to be. Many philanthropists have also come to the understanding that some of our philanthropy must be directed towards increasing philanthropy and to the ecosystems around philanthropy. Some of us are committing capital to that, to capacity building, training, discovering talent, and creating more platforms for giving.
We cannot expect the super-rich to solve all of society’s problems. But, like everybody else, they can participate in this quest. With wealth and with philanthropy comes a lot of power. I think philanthropists need to look in the mirror every day and be clear about what we are doing philanthropy for – is it to keep the status quos of power, or are we trying to do something more exciting than just keeping wealth for a few? Mona points out that without the opportunity to be economically successful, we would also never have innovation. Innovation comes with the opportunity to create something new, to break systems that don’t work, to find solutions that are different. When those succeed, people do become wealthy because that’s how markets work best.
While we should all challenge why so few people have so much wealth, we should not demonize individuals in that process. We must separate the person from the societal distribution of wealth. Instead of saying all billionaires are bad, we can talk about things like more taxation, increased transparency and accountability in philanthropy, and ask whether power structures are being kept the same or changing because of philanthropy. We must be careful not to sit in judgment about individual billionaires, but rather talk about changing the system. How do we change the system together? We can’t depend just on the super-wealthy. How do we change the skewed economic system in the world, fueled by the over-financialisation of the economy and winner-takes-all business models? Together, we can change things for the better.
This is an edited version of an interview with Nandan and Rohini Nilekani on the Business of Philanthropy. In conversation with Badr Jafar, they discuss some of the golden rules for strategic philanthropy, how technology is changing the philanthropic sector, and how Covid-19 will impact India’s ability to achieve the SDGs by 2030.
I have been working in the philanthropy sector for almost 30 years now, and while it looks like I’m trying to do a little bit in so many areas, what holds my philanthropy portfolio together is one simple but powerful idea – the continuum of the state, society, and the markets. My entire focus is on strengthening society or Samaaj because I truly believe that markets and the state have to be responsive to society. To ensure that the state and markets are accountable to the largest public interest, we need very strong leadership and societal institutions to make that happen and to collect and coordinate ordinary people’s efforts so that they become part of the solution rather than victims of the problem. So whether I’m working in education, environment, water, or arts and culture, it’s all about finding institutions, individuals, and ideas that strengthen the Samaaj. That’s the common thread in my work, and the rest of it is based on my passion and opportunities for many different things. On Nandan’s part, one of the big areas he focuses on is education and EkStep is the largest part of that. He supports many institutions, including the Indian Institute of Human Settlements and eGov Foundation, both of which he has founded. He’s also the president of NCAER, India’s preeminent economic think tank.
Takeaways From the Pandemic
The current pandemic has had and is continuing to have a devastating impact, in terms of pushing people back into poverty, and the gains of the last few years are actually getting unwound with lack of jobs and income for many people. Especially in India, it’s pretty heartbreaking because so many people have just lifted themselves out of poverty in a stable way. If we are to achieve our SDG goals by 2030, we have to work harder, faster, and even more at scale to make up for what it has meant in terms of progress. We need private philanthropy now to step up and underwrite a lot of risk, so that the next time – and there will be a next time, whether it’s a climate change-related crisis or another pandemic – we are much better prepared. We need people who can invest, to assess what has happened in the last nine months, figure out what worked in different countries, do rapid studies, do some scoping, and then support institutions who will be able to come together for a rapid response next time around. The government is too busy right now to do this, but private philanthropy has the space, the time, and the resources to do it. So that’s one thing in terms of Covid and philanthropy. And as Nandan points out, perhaps the nature of this pandemic and its impact has made people more receptive and flexible to new ideas and innovations.
What we have learnt so far is that we must focus on society and communities. Who were the first responders all over the world? It was citizen’s groups, people who knew the neighbourhoods and could reach the last mile, or rather the first mile as I like to say. Of course, the government came in, health workers came, but the first responders were civil institutions. Strengthening those and building networks of trust well in advance is a big learning that I have taken away from this pandemic.
We have also seen a rise in the acceptance of digital technology and at EkStep, we are quite taken aback. Luckily, the government had already asked us to help with setting up a national infrastructure to train teachers to create content and also allow students to come online to get a lot of learning resources. But the kind of rapid uptake we saw in the last few months has staggered our own teams as well. We have tried our best to also watch out for those on the other side of the digital divide, and a lot of innovations have flourished there as well. So this uptake of the digital, the knowledge that citizen’s groups are the first responders, and the ability of philanthropy to take new risks with a new imagination so that we are better prepared next time, seem to be the takeaways from this pandemic.
Technology With Good Intent
The role of technology in philanthropy has gained a lot of importance in these Covid times because everything has been digitised including the way we deliver things to people, and we believe that it enables scale, as Nandan says. If we really want to solve the problems of a billion people, we need technology underpinnings to reach everyone. It enables speed, a common platform, and the ability to deal with the diverse changes that are required across the world. Unlike Nandan, I am by no means a techie, but I’ve understood how using technology appropriately can actually amplify our good intent. There are of course dangers that come with technology, so how you use it, taking the power of your intent and building a grammar around that intent through good technologies is a very important thing. Philanthropists need to now start thinking about how they will support civil society with more technology tools to be able to participate fully in the digital age.
Civil society institutions, especially in India, have been a little technophobic, thinking that technology and power get woven too intricately against the interests of the masses. But I think it’s now crucial for them to enter and participate fully in the digital age, and to democratise the digital age so that whatever problems we have to solve about technology can be solved together. Rather than shunning technology, we need to accept the digital age and improve the way technology serves society. For philanthropy, it’s important to understand how to support civil society institutions to be technology-enabled but not technology-led. As a non-techie, I can honestly say that good technologies will amplify good intent and we must now use them.
The Future of India’s Philanthropy
For both of us, achieving impact at scale is very important. But along with scale and speed, diversity is also important because one solution does not fit all. It is patently obvious to all of us that you cannot solve issues in silos. If you’re interested in having impact at the scale of the problem and not just in a much smaller way, then you have to work with Samaaj, Bazaar, and Sarkar. This is certainly easier to do with areas like education where there is a moral undeniability to it rather than something political. So starting with issues that are common to everybody’s welfare, it’s easy to draw in the state because it is their mandate to provide basic services. We have found that governments have been pretty open to coming in as partners and helping them reach the last mile. Of course, there are setbacks but it’s possible to find champions inside the government. On our part, we have to clearly articulate the common goals and communicate them. Even in terms of the markets in India, by law they have to share a portion of their profits with society through our corporate social responsibility laws. So they are very eager to participate.
Throughout our work in this sector, we have held certain philosophies and ideas, about how to increase access to services. For example, with the kind of work I do in the water space, how do we increase access to those services, or to opportunities like education in a country where a large part of people are unable to participate formally in the economy due to a lack of education and access. So how do we bring these people into the fold and help them improve their lives? The work that we have been doing for so many decades now has led us to come up with a slightly more structured way to address these questions by reducing the friction to collaborate between state, markets and society. We call it ‘societal platform thinking’, a framework underpinned by a few very fundamental values such as being technology-enabled but not technology-led, being people-led, problem-led, and to create a unified but not uniform solution so that multiple people can engage in their own context to solve their own problems. This is something we hold very dear because using this, the government and markets can come in, the civil society can thrive, and individuals can also find a way to build back agency. This is what we are trying to achieve.
Over the last few years, there’s been a tremendously increasing awareness and interest in philanthropy. All the wealthy people of India have come to the conclusion that we have to give forward and there are now many structured opportunities to do so. Whether it is through the India Philanthropy Initiative, or the many business bodies in India and informal networks that we have been able to work with, we have seen an acceleration of the intent to cooperate among the Indian philanthropists, which I find very heartening. We’ve had several conversations and meetings on this and I’ve been lucky enough to also see a flourishing of international cooperation. Looking eastwards from India, the Asia philanthropists have come together in several fora and we have been exchanging a lot of information. There are certainly cultural similarities between us so coming to understand a new way for Asia to come together is very exciting. Of course, western philanthropists have also been part of those discussions. In addition, global collaborative platforms like Co-Impact and others have me hopeful about this interesting point we’re at, but we need to take advantage of this momentum and push forwards to a better future.
This is an edited version of Rohini Nilekani’s conversation with NatureinFocus Founder Rohit Varma and Kalyan Varma about her thoughts on the importance of conservation, how to reach younger generations, and her love for the environment and a certain black panther in Kabini.
I was born in Mumbai in ‘59 and my childhood was spent in a very urban context. In those days Mumbai was not as dense as it is now, but even then we did not have too much wildlife around. Inside my house, my parents would get rid of any potential wildlife. They would use flit cans and kill every cockroach, ant, and spider. However, all our holidays were spent in my grandparents farm in Dahanu in the northern part of Mumbai, along the coast, among chikoo and mango orchards. It was there that I got to experience nature. In those days, there were no seat belts and we used to drive in an open jeep. It was densely forested all around and we would sleep outside, under a canopy of stars. I think that’s when I learned to not just love nature, but also understand its relevance to human well-being.
As a journalist I did some environmental writing, because Bombay was always tussling with environmental issues. As a reporter for Bombay Magazine, I got to cover some of those issues. Through my work in philanthropy, collaborating with organisations like ATREE, I began to gain a deeper understanding of the issues around biodiversity, conservation, ecology and all the challenges therein for India and the world. Climate change has now ensured that most people are paying more attention to the environment as well. But within the field of conservation, whether we are talking about water, land, climate, or biodiversity, the organisations that have been working on these issues for decades deserve a huge amount of credit for their work.
Telling Stories, Changing Attitudes
There are many environmental organisations in India, some of which do take hardcore positions and clash with each other on certain issues. For example, one of the big issues is that some people believe we can only conserve our forests if we remove human beings from those areas. Others believe that there is no way we can conserve our forests if we don’t have human eyes watching or being a part of it because we are a part of nature. Without commenting on my position on the issue, the point I am trying to make is that civil society organisations working in the environment sector need to come to some kind of common platform, where you can tell your stories without these bitter battles, so that those stories reach the people who have capital that they want to put into this. A common platform would also allow people who would otherwise be confused about what issues to support or how to support them. We need to create bridges between philanthropists and organisations, and make those important stories accessible to more people.
For many years, foreign organisations were funding this space to some extent. While I’m grateful for that, I think it’s now time to draw in some Indian philanthropic capital. For that, we must make sure that we don’t hesitate to reach out to the Indian wealthy. We have to reach out to them without putting ideological barriers over our eyes. Can we do that? Can we open ourselves to tell stories to those who really want to do something but may not have connected all the dots? Each one of us is in our own evolutionary path. I think the time has come to reach out, create spaces, and bring our stories to the wealthy of the country who want to be more philanthropic in the environmental space.
In addition to collaborating with many of these organisations in the environmental space, I have harboured a personal obsession with the black panther in Karnataka’s Kabini forest. I’d been visiting for five years, always searching for Blacky so when I got a call that he was there, I was sure that I would miss him as I have so many other times. But this time he didn’t disappear back into the forest and I finally got to see him. It was quite a moment for me, I actually shed a tear. I was just so grateful to have seen him, he is really gorgeous. But my love for wildlife isn’t only limited to him and luckily for me, India is so blessed – there are so many wildlife sanctuaries one can visit like Tadoba in Maharashtra, Kaziranga in Assam, Ranthambore in Rajasthan, and so many other places in Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Sikkim, and Madhya Pradesh. But personally, Kabini with its trees and wildlife is my favourite.
What must go alongside our fascination with wildlife is the knowledge of our responsibility towards it. How are human beings going to learn to live well on this planet? I think it is our responsibility to introduce nature to young people, especially those who are growing up in otherwise urban environments. We need to get them as excited about seeing a draco, frogs, or even spiders. I found a tarantula in my room the other day in Kabini. The old Rohini would have screamed, but now I understand that the tarantula also has a role to play. We gently took him and put him outside. It’s up to us to share the story about our interconnectedness with younger generations. A tiger cannot survive without everything else in the natural world, including a spider. These large, majestic tigers and lions capture public attention but we need to also communicate the value of all living things. The better we tell our stories, the faster attitudes will change.
The Story of Invisible Water
One of the stories I’m interested in telling is about water. In 2005, I founded Arghyam with the mission of ensuring safe, sustainable water for all. By ‘all’ we don’t just mean humans, but all living species. While we focused a lot on human welfare, lifeline water, and drinking water/public water, we were very aware that our work ties back to rivers and landscapes. We did a lot of work on groundwater management, wetland conservation, drought proofing, and flood proofing with some amazing partners that we have all over India. In the summers, we know what happens in the forests when there is no rain – how dry it gets and how desperate the animals become. One real challenge for India is how to manage its water resources better. We cannot produce more water even if we desalinate, even if we put aside the politics and sustainability aspects of that. So how does one manage, as a country, with the water that we have? I think we need to think hard on this. The forest department also has a role to play in helping the public understand the management of catchments. Through Arghyam we have been able to do a lot of work for the last 16 years with water as it is intricately connected to biodiversity, wildlife, and human well-being.
As individuals, communities, and in our roles as Samaaj, Bazaar, and Sarkar – all of us have a role to play in the conservation of water. At a personal level, we all know that we need to reduce our water footprint. But even then people think, ‘How does it matter if I keep the tap running when I am brushing my teeth?’ Perhaps it actually does not matter because eventually, the system is a kind of an urban cycle. But it does help us to practice valuing water. When we remember to turn off the tap while we are brushing our teeth, if we are lucky enough to have running water, it helps us to understand and mindfully learn about water as a resource. Everything we do to increase our mindfulness in terms of water use helps us to be more successful as a community. Every action that corporations take to ensure that inside their fence and in their supply chain they are being more efficient per unit of production when it comes to water, is helping everybody. Of course, the government has a mandate; it is a lifeline resource. The government right now has undertaken two huge missions on water, and through the Jal Shakti mission, hopefully the lifeline water will be much more secure for people. We already have come a long way in the last few years. But everyone has their own role to play and we should not feel that what we do is never going to be enough. All of us should see that everything we do contributes to a more equitable and sustainable future.
Water is hidden in everything and the things we consume or use has an invisible water footprint. I think the younger generation understands these things more than my generation did when we were young. My generation has a lot to account for. But slowly, as people are telling these stories and being better examples themselves, that consciousness is coming in. That’s not to say that it will be easy. If we look at public spaces in urban India for example, there are very few opportunities to reconnect with nature even if young people want to do so. Perhaps after 2020, we may now reimagine our public spaces. This will not be the last pandemic, nor was it the first. However, it has given us the opportunity to rethink how we connect with nature. During the lockdown, we saw a 30 percent reduction of fossil fuel, albeit for a short while. It bounced back, but because people did not use cars, more people got to walk around their neighbourhoods and breathe cleaner air. I disagree with people when they say this is an elite issue. People living in slums getting clean air is an even bigger issue than people like myself getting clean air. So it did allow us a chance to reimagine what our cities could be. It’s now up to civil society and academia to keep the conversation going, so that we don’t simply revert to being disconnected again.
Staying Curious, Connected, and Committed
I have met so many young people interested in looking for alternative futures, and I think we will see a lot of innovation from them because they are going to inherit a terrible future and they know that. Climate change is already here. I prefer not to be foolishly optimistic, but to have a realistic hope that when people see themselves in a crisis because of the way we are abusing water, land, carbon, etc. they are going to change. Just like people learned to wear masks within one month. We always thought that humans can’t change, but we proved in 2020 that this is not true. So I don’t think we should lose hope for young people. They are going to be at the edge of the environmental crisis and I think they will be forced to innovate out of it, which might mean that they will be less dependent on fossil fuels. I also see a new trend emerging in Western countries, of a post-consumption generation that prefers quality over quantity. In my generation, if we had 100 rupees we would spend that on 10 or 15 things, but this generation is now looking consciously to spend that money in ways that are less abusive to the planet. I hope that these trends are gaining visibility and others may follow.
We also need to start young and schooling and education matters a lot in this regard. In India now, Environmental Studies (EVS) is a compulsory subject, but we must think about how we can enrich what they learn there. How can we give children more hands-on practice? Whether they live in an urban slum or are part of the Jenu Kurubas (honey gatherers) around Kabini, there is going to be wildlife where they are. They just need adults to make sense of it, apart from having time to explore on their own. Learning should be happening at home as well as in schools. And there are multiple mediums for this to happen, including arts and culture. Street theatre and stage dramas, films and documentaries, arts and performances, are all ways through which the story of our interconnectedness with nature and the environment can be told. These stories are important, this is how we can reach children. It’s an ongoing effort and we’re seeing some interesting market interventions coming in. People who can afford outdoor camping enjoy it a lot, they like to go out into the wild. Forest tourism has increased as well. These changes are slow, but they are happening. Our jobs as organisations and leaders who care deeply about the environment is to keep telling these stories, finding new audiences, and reaching as many communities as possible.
My advice to the younger generation is to stay curious. Always keep your mind open and acquire new knowledge about how we are all so interdependent – from the ants and spiders to the germs and bacteria on our skin. Remain curious about that. Once you have that curiosity, you will develop an understanding. So the second thing is to remain connected to the issues that you have understood. I mean that these are all economic, social, political issues of the environment. Don’t hesitate to connect with the economic, social, and political intersections of issues around environment and conservation efforts. Even if it means understanding laws, how they affect you, how they affect the places around you, habitats around you, you must stay connected.
Lastly, once you have become curious and connected, you must also remain committed. This is a long journey. We need perseverance. We cannot be disappointed by two or three things and step back. We have to keep walking to go forward. This is the only planet that we can inhabit, and we know that we need to heal it, to regenerate it and by doing so we regenerate ourselves. So stay curious, stay connected and stay committed.
This is an edited version of Rohini Nilekani in conversation with Vidya Shah, Chairperson & CEO, EdelGive Foundation at EDGE 2020. They discuss Rohini’s insights from her philanthropic journey over the years.
My work in philanthropy spans different spaces, from groundwater and sanitation, early learning, social justice and governance, to the arts. I have portfolios on active citizenship, young men and boys, environmental issues, and how to collaborate on better access to justice. It may seem like this approach makes me a jack of all trades and master of none. But I would like to put this in perspective, because while these are all different issues, to my mind they focus on the same thing, which is the strengthening of Samaaj. I’ve said many times that making the Samaaj strong enough to solve its problems on its own, obviously with collaboration, remains the single driving spirit behind my philanthropy and my other work as well. Regardless of what field we are working in, what I look for is ideas, individuals, and institutions that have the integrity, commitment, and passion to solve something that they care about. These are all societal issues, and through my philanthropy, I hope to strengthen communities and Samaaj to respond to problems and see themselves as an active part of the solution. Thanks to India’s thriving civil sector, I am able to work across these areas and have the privilege of supporting some amazing organizations.
How to Strengthen and Support the Social Sector
There are so many things acting on civil society right now. Pressures of fundraising, pressures of all kinds of reforms that the government is undertaking that are worrying the sector a lot right now. And on top of that, because of the Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) law or because of various diversions in ideological beliefs, many rich philanthropists have undertaken initiatives to implement their aims on their own, hiring their own people and operating within their own gate. They may be collaborating with the government, but not necessarily with existing civil society institutions. This is a worrying trend because these civil society organizations have their feet very firmly on the ground. They’ve done the work for decades, they understand how problems evolve, and how sometimes a new solution may give rise to a new problem. Unless you have a deep, contextual understanding of the issue, you can’t really grapple with the inequities that common people have to face. So, I would say to philanthropists, even if you implement within your own organization, make sure to find those people who are already doing good work. And I think many of them do that. For example, at EkStep we are rolling out a huge platform along with the government, but we also made sure to include many civil society organizations in it.
We need to collectively work on making our society strong, and that means strengthening its institutions, leadership, and a moral base so that we can confidently hold the markets and the state accountable to the common public interest. Society is not homogenous, especially in India, so it is a tricky task to ensure that societal tensions do not spill over. For that, I think the first thing is we need to go back to the basics. We must start having conversations about how do we see ourselves as citizens first? How do we see ourselves not just as consumers or subjects of the state, but as active participants in society?
Today it is so easy to wake up in the morning itself as a consumer, you know? The first cup of tea you have and until you go to bed, something is there which ties you to the market very closely, especially digitally. Today, states are so powerful. From morning to night, you’re also ruled by a million laws, some of which you don’t even know. So how do we grab back for ourselves? We need to understand that we are citizens first, and that we must work to make our society better for everyone, whether that means just doing something within your building, house, neighborhood, city, or for the whole country. So, just that flip from realizing you’re not a subject, you’re not a customer, you are a human being and a citizen first – once these layers are understood, it becomes easier to do the work which strengthens Samaaj.
The task before civil society and the media now is to make people see that they need to be giving back to society, and the work that they do through their businesses is not enough. Because that old idea of the business of business is business, that’s over right? We have understood the interconnections so much better, especially in 2020, that I think for more business people and wealthy people to start giving forward into areas that they don’t directly benefit from. It’s a very critical way forward, even for themselves, because you and I know what kind of satisfaction and joy and discovery we get from doing this work. I think it is up to us also to tell these stories a little better than we are doing right now, to draw in more people into this adventure. So, there’s work ahead on all sides.
This is more complex for women, since many women do not have control over their finances and being able to give is a tricky issue. Personally, I had to battle for my identity because Nandan takes up such a large space. I had to work and demonstrate over time, my approach is complementary and different to his. I was fortunate enough to put my own money into Infosys, so I became independently wealthy and have more control over my own finances. Families need to understand that women can use their talents, not only in their jobs and home life, but can also work to improve their community. I urge women to take this up confidently, start as small as you feel comfortable with, but do not be afraid to make the demand on money to give forward, because it’s another way to contribute to the family and instill important values in the next generation.
In the last two decades, people have had these conversations and learnt from each other in the sector. They are beginning to join head and heart and pocket. It is true that people start either from the heart or from the head, and strangely the journey from the heart to the head is actually a very long and deep journey. It’s an evolution. It’s a learning path, and people who start from head quickly realize that they need a bit of heart, and people who start from the heart realize, “Oops, we need to think this through much more for systemic change.” So they get there eventually, and again, we must make sure those of us who are so passionate about this sector, ask how we can keep more resources out there so that people can converge their head and heart and not forget about their pockets as well. Open your head, your heart, and your pocket.
Most people have understood that they have to work with the government, the biggest player of all. And that doesn’t necessarily mean the Prime Minister’s Office. It could mean working with the local panchayat, ward councilor, or mohalla committee, or it could be any form of a state or a para-state organization. So first of all, we need to understand what we mean by government. And if you’re doing new philanthropy, begin small. There are a variety of opportunities to engage with the government and it will help to expand your own work, even if it is at a very small scale. Today, if you go to your ward councilor and say, “I want to give books and uniforms to one school”, you are already working with the state and the political system. If you begin small, you will quickly understand how that will help you to scale up your work.
The Challenges for Indian Philanthropy
I think philanthropists who are business people who have to constantly work with the government, are generally very nervous to take on risky things which the government might think are anti-government. Even though they may not be, right? If something is pro-people, it’s not necessarily anti-government. So, we have to be very careful in our philanthropy. It must be pro-people or pro-ecosystems that also benefit people. And I think Indian philanthropy needs to take a very hard look at what is actually happening on the ground. Why are people suffering? With climate change, who’s going to suffer? Those who live at the edge of livelihood and land, livelihood, and water, those kinds of places.
If we do not understand now that the economy is, as they say, a wholly owned subsidiary of the ecology, then even businesses will not thrive. Otherwise, corporates will shy away from the hard questions about pollution, water sustainability, land issues, agriculture, and many more issues. Being pro-people and pro-environment for our country is important right now. We can afford to take more risks, even in terms of access to justice. How many people are languishing in prisons without trials because they do not have easy access to courts and lawyers? Societal issues are intricately linked together, and those connections are being woven tighter together as time goes by. We need to understand this and use those insights in our philanthropy.
I think that civil society in India needs to realize that they were dependent on foreign and multilateral organizations for funding, and that they did not spend enough time and energy to bridge divides between them and Indian funders. Instead of assuming that people will not fund them, they need to now tell their stories in a way that will help funders understand. So there is a lot of work that civil society needs to do to reach out to Indians who are becoming wealthier or are already wealthy. We need to galvanize our own super wealthy, and get the wealthy to start openly giving. When we talk about wealth in India, it is often in hushed tones. Wealth creation is actually a good thing because that’s how you bring more and more people into prosperity, which is why societies allow it and the state encourages it.
But wealth must be used and must be seen to be beneficial for all society. If only a few private people are benefiting from wealth creation, and masses of people are not seeing the benefit of that wealth creation, then clearly something is very seriously wrong. So, there is a lot of churn going on right now. These last 20 years, a lot of economic papers have celebrated billionaires, but I think we are seeing a tipping point now. People have understood that while wealth creation is good, accumulation of so much wealth in few private hands that is not visibly being deployed for societal interests, people are beginning to wake up to the problems that that poses. And I think today all wealthy people need to reflect on the opportunity to be more useful to far more people and do it visibly. I think the time to be shy about it is over.
Finally, we need to look at retail fundraising. How do Indian civil society organizations tap into this more effectively? While I think we do need to professionalize civil society, the core of the sector is the volunteer energy that people have in them. The desire to do good for its own sake, without transactional results, is what motivates us. That is what we need to see coming up again, so civil society has to learn to tap into that.
Moving Towards a Digital Civil Society
The pandemic has helped us realize the importance of digital spaces, especially when it comes to creating a more resilient civil society in India. Whether in terms of organizations’ capacity to quickly respond to emerging problems, or the capacity to not be dependent on a few funding waves, the sector would benefit from the move to the digital. In order for this to happen, we need to build out capacity building as a sector in philanthropy and civil society. We need to provide more training, tools, and resources to civil society organizations because without financial support they may not be able to do it.
Over the past few years, our teams at EkStep and at the Societal Platform have been thinking about how to use technology to build for inclusion. Although I am not a techie, I have learned to expand my definition of tech – farmers use the plough, Gandhi used the charkha, we moved from bullock carts to cars, and these are all examples of technology. Everything is technology, but information technology particularly is double-edged and we know it can be used for both good and bad. Information technology amplifies intent, so working on intent and declaring it is very important. We need to constantly make sure that our technology does not lead us away from our intent. So how do we make technology work for society, to serve Samaaj? This is why we designed Societal Platform Thinking. If we want everyone to have an education, healthcare, access to justice, water, or any other basic necessity, can we use the power of all these emerging technologies to do that instead of trying to capture value at one end of the spectrum?
There are no simple solutions, but I believe the way forward is to create open public digital goods so that everyone can be a part of taking back technology for society. I don’t see how else we can solve these complex societal issues, which is why I urge civil society organizations to bring themselves into the digital age, because the new societal problems are going to be digital age problems. We need a healthy digital civil society to tackle digital age issues on virtual platforms. These are complex issues, but they can be made simpler with the goal that technology must enable inclusion, choice, access, and agency. And we have to design for all these principles, which is what we hope Societal Platform Thinking will do.
This is an edited version of a conversation with Ramchandra Guha and Rohini Nilekani. They discuss how Gandhi shaped his intent and life to fulfil his various goals of individual freedom and agency, a true Swarajya, and how he achieved impact at scale. Many of the choices he grappled with are relevant to us today.
Ordinary Beginnings When Gandhi began his life, he was an ordinary man. As a lawyer, he wasn’t particularly good at his profession, he was scared to speak, and he had no self-confidence so he couldn’t even defend his own cases. He made his way to South Africa since he had some family issues, and what happens to him over the next 50 years that turns him into a kind of saint. Ramchandra Guha explains to us the value that his story holds for ordinary people like us. He points out that before he was a failed lawyer, Gandhi was also a mediocre student. One of the discoveries that Guha made over the course of his research was an obscure book published in the 1960s by the former headmaster of Gandhi’s school in Rajkot, the King Alfred High School. His mark-sheets were very revealing – in the Mumbai matriculation, he came 404th out of 800 students. And for someone who would become a great writer in English and Gujaraiti, his marks in the subject were 41% and 43% respectively. So his beginnings were extremely unpropitious. What was interesting was his quest for both the truth and for learning. It was significant that he, as a baniya boy in the 1870s in a small town in Gujarat, had a Muslim as his best friend. He also had the moral courage or the reckless ambition to travel to London, which meant that he was excommunicated from his caste because baniyas were very conservative and were not supposed to travel overseas. So although he was not particularly good in his studies, he had a desire to learn, explore, experience new lands, and make new kinds of friendships. We often talk about intellectual curiosity being important in any sphere of life, but this was perhaps a personal, emotional, and moral curiosity, suggests Guha. That is something which was marked in him, but then he came back and failed as a lawyer, and was rescued from professional oblivion by an invitation from South Africa.
This is where the journey begins. If he had succeeded as a lawyer in Bombay, India today would be a completely different place. He probably would have settled into a comfortable practice servicing other Gujaratis, having a home in Santa Cruz or Khar, rearing a family, and that would be the end of Gandhi as we know it. But luck and circumstance often play a part in the making of greatness. So he went to South Africa and the people who called him were a Gujarati Muslim family having a dispute. This is quite common among business families in India today, where two brothers are fighting, and this family decided to bring in a lawyer who knew the English law but also could read in Gujarati. So he was called and for his first night in Durban, he stayed in the home of his client who was a Muslim. This would have been inconceivable in Rajkot, so it may be here, Guha notes, that the diaspora is formed where previous boundaries are broken. Although it was a Gujarati family who had called him, the dominant sections of the Indian community in South Africa were Tamil workers, plantation workers, and mining workers. So he immersed himself in the lives of poorer Indians who spoke a very different language. It’s a striking fact that when Gandhi started a magazine called Indian Opinion in 1904, in Durban, to proselytize for the cause of the Indian Community there, the magazine was printed in four languages – Hindi, English, Tamil, and Gujarati. This ability to learn about other kinds of communities, faiths, languages, and social backgrounds became central to Gandhi’s early journey, which shaped him as he matured. Inspiring Followers By Leading Well
In South Africa, Gandhi had a monopoly. There were 150,000 Indians, and he was the only qualified lawyer. In fact, at one stage the burden of cases on him was so great that he ironically reached out to Jinnah, another Gujarati lawyer, to join him. Here he was, a successful professional, a well-known lawyer and an acknowledged leader of his community, and he gave it all up to come back to India. Gandhi himself never really tells us why he came back, but as his biographer, Guha speculates that he had exhausted the challenges that faced him and had already achieved what he could. He was the most respected, influential, and admired Indian in South Africa, but there were only 150,000 Indians in South Africa. He wanted a larger stage for his ambitions. Ambition, says Guha, is not necessarily a bad thing if the ambition is moral and political.
When he returned to India, the Congress was 30 years old and it already had leaders like Tilak and Gokhale. He may have sensed that he could prove himself under them. Gokhale, who was already his mentor, told him to spend a year traveling around India. He said, “Don’t jump into politics straight away. And keep your mouth shut for a year. Don’t speak on any social or political subject for a year.” This is actually quite extraordinary because it’s a discipline to do a proper apprenticeship until you have soaked yourself thoroughly in the landscape, the people, and the context. And that’s what he did. He started slowly and in 1917 he was called to Champaran. In Champaran, Indigo tenants were facing enormous suffering and exploitation by European landlords. Unlike the other Congress leaders, Gandhi got down from his pedestal and fought for their cause. The first day he went, he was arrested and almost deported, and this news reached the Gujarat Club in Ahmedabad where Vallabhbhai Patel was playing bridge. He was impressed that this Gujarati has the guts to be arrested by the British and decides to give up his law practice and joins him. It’s in these early years that Gandhi also gathers a group of outstanding colleagues and co-workers.
Many people go to help him in Champaran including J. B. Kripalani and Rajendra Prasad. He had started a peasant movement, which succeeded and so an agreement was worked out with the British landlords and planters, with better terms given to the peasants. Then in Ahmedabad, where he already has his own ashram, Gandhi got involved in agitating for better wages and working conditions for workers. In 1919, there was a Rowlatt Satyagraha, against a particularly draconian piece of colonial legislation, which he launched and that made him an all-India leader. Through the course of the Rowlatt Satyagraha, he came to Chennai and acquired C. Rajagopalachari, later to be India’s first Governor-General, as his devoted follower.
He also traveled to Allahabad, where he acquired Motilal and Jawaharlal Nehru as part of his group of committed political activists. So, he found a cause, expanded the horizon of his activities from peasants in Champaran, to workers in Ahmedabad, to a full fledged all-India movement against a draconian act, and built a team along the way. Then came the Non-cooperation movement, which he called off after an incident of violence in Chauri Chaura where some protesters burned a police thana with several policemen in it. This is where the question of means and ends comes in, because at that stage in 1922, the Non-cooperation movement had engulfed all of India. If we contrast Gandhi in this regard, to India’s three most successful Prime Ministers, Nehru, Indira Gandhi, and Modi. Despite their differences in ideologies and styles of governance, all three of them don’t make leaders out of their followers and instead everyone has to report to them. Gandhi was a great leader in that regard, not only because of his own achievements but because he gave India Nehru, Patel, Rajaji, Kripalani, Kamaladevi Chattopadhyay, Maulana Azad, Zakir Hussain, Mirabehn, and hundreds of other politicians, social workers, and institution builders the opportunity to become leaders in their own right.
The Importance of Accessibility and Inclusion One of the things that Gandhi did was to transform the Congress party itself. He entered the organisation which was already well established but had major weaknesses – its proceedings were only in English, its members were all male, and its members were all professionals. He transformed it by bringing in women, ensuring every provincial unit conducted its proceedings in the language of that region, and by moving beyond the urban middle class and professionals to peasants, workers, and artisans. Amongst his great achievements is this transformation of an organisation. To enter an organisation and transform its scale, scope, vision, membership, philosophy, and instruments like starting new newspapers and journals as a vehicle for its use, and expanding its team. This is one of Gandhi’s under-appreciated achievements as a leader. Another part of Gandhi’s greatness is that while he was expanding the Congress, making it a mass movement, and launching campaigns to pressurise the British for independence, he was also scrutinizing Indian society for its own failures and weaknesses. He was challenging the British morally, by saying “If you believe in freedom, if you say Westminster is the home of democracy, what about democracy for colored peoples?” But he was also telling Indians, “You have to be fit for freedom. Can you be fit for freedom if you treat one fifth of your population as untouchables? Can you be fit for freedom if women do not get equal rights?” Gandhi’s campaign to abolish untouchability is well known. At the time, he was the most alert upper caste Hindu to recognize the terrible injustice that upper caste Hindus commit on untouchables but he was also trying to bring women into public life. By the standards of 2020, Gandhi is not a feminist. He himself tells us how he treated his wife and was ambivalent about women working outside the home, but in the context of his own time, he was extremely progressive. In 1922, he went to jail because of Chauri Chaura. When he was released in 1924, the Belgaum Congress was being held in December of that year and he named Sarojini Naidu as president, because a woman must get a chance. But since he had just been released from jail they made him president, the first and last time Gandhi is the president of Congress. The next year, he makes sure that Sarojini Naidu is president. We see the United States applauding Kamala Harris as the first woman to become Vice President. In 1925, there was no woman member of the US Congress, the US Senate, and even a municipal body in San Francisco had only all male members. So, to appoint a female president of India’s most influential political party 100 years ago was a revolutionary and radical step. He did this because he recognized that Indians treat women and Dalits badly. While he was battling the British, he was also calling Indians to their better, more noble self. He didn’t just believe in a jingoistic nationalism which says Indians are great, Hindus are great, we just have to go back to the Vedas and we’ll be all fine. We need to keep this in mind when we think about how to keep inclusion at the heart of what we do.
Allowing Missions to Evolve Over Time
Gandhi recognized that every religion, every society, every nation, and every individual is fallible. This includes himself. When he went to South Africa, he was 24 years old and he held certain prejudices that Indians hold even today. He grew up in a society where the customary sentiment among educated Indians was that Indians are Aryans, like the British, but Africans will always be at the bottom of the heap. And he expressed these racist prejudices in his early writings during his 20s and 30s, however he slowly overcame it after living there and admiring their sense of morality. When he returned to India, he evolved from being a non-racist to an anti-racist. Over the last 30 years of his life, he urged Indians in South Africa to make common cause with the Africans for a joint program to end racial inequality of all kinds. His evolution with regard to caste is also incredibly interesting. In his Ashram in Ahmedabad, he admited a Dalit couple which resulted in funders stopping their funding because they said that it was against their Dharma and he couldn’t have people of different castes mixing. He was rescued by Ambalal Sarabhai, a progressive philanthropist. But he didn’t prescribe what he was doing in his Ashram to society at large because he thought they were not ready to accept it. He said, “In my Ashram, Dalit and Savarna eat from the same plate but I am not saying that you should practice that in your kind of environment.” He then met the great Kerala social reformer, Narayana Guru, and the great Maharashtrian social reformer, BR Ambedkar, and these two individuals radicalised Gandhi. They confronted and challenged him to take a more critical and direct position in attacking caste. So Gandhi organised a temple entry movement in Vaikom, Kerala. From saying untouchability is bad, he moved to saying that Dalits and upper castes can go together into the temple and worship right in the sanctum sanctorum, because God is equal for us. He then advocates inter-dining and inter-marriage. From the 1930s onwards, the only marriages that Gandhi personally supervised in his Ashram were between Dalits and Savarnas. So over 25 years, he evolved his position on caste from saying untouchability is bad but varna in theory is fine to actually advocating what Ambedkar wanted, i.e. the annihilation of caste in everyday life. Another example of Gandhi’s evolution is his attitude towards his children. He was a disastrous father to his first two children, but much better and more caring towards the younger two. If an unknown person wrote him a letter of criticism and he felt that criticism had some merit in it, he would print it in his journal and answer it. For example, Gandhi had made a comment about the harassment of young women by men, suggesting that women should not wear fancy dresses and jewellery. When 11 women from Bengal wrote him a rejoinder, he printed the letter in his journal and sought to answer it, conceding some ground. He had this exceptional quality which was the willingness to engage in debate and dialogue, and transform his opponents but also himself if they were saying something valuable, says Guha. Gandhi debated with Jinnah over 20 years about whether Hindus and Muslims could live together in a single state, and he didn’t give up right till the end. But his language was always impeccably courteous, there was no innuendo, no sneer. He debated on principle, he could respectfully disagree, and it was always possible to change his mind. When it came to technology, Gandhi’s views also evolved over time. Many people only read Hind Swaraj, the book that he wrote in 1909 where he demonises railways and modern medicine, as the first and last word on everything he said about technology. But Hind Swaraj was written when Gandhi had not experienced life in India and he still had 40 more years to live. The longer he lived and the more he saw science and technology in action, the less hostile he became towards it. However, he was opposed to centralisation and the dispositional agency that big technology can bring about, which was a risk. The charkha (spinning wheel) was a type of technology he was very on board with. He told every Congress member to spin every day and produce yarn. He knew that India’s flourishing textile industry was destroyed by the East India Company and the destruction of handicrafts was a step towards the consolidation of colonial rule. But he also used the charkha to break down the boundary between manual and mental labor, because in our caste systems Brahmins thought, Baniyas did accounts, but only the Shudras worked. He wanted everyone to do manual labor and appreciate the dignity of labor. Gandhi’s third reason was to promote a sense of solidarity. Everyone in the Congress is doing the same thing. In contrast to fascist parties, Gandhi was thinking about how to cultivate social solidarity in a creative, non-violent way. Guha argues that his Charkha program should not be seen through the narrow prism of Gandhi reviving 18th century technology and rejecting 21st century tech. Any technology that was emancipatory, liberating, non-violent, and did not destroy the environment would meet with Gandhi’s approval.
The Beauty of Compromise
In trying to implement Gandhi’s values and insights into our lives, we must also realise that we may not have the kind of moral force to take the kinds of actions that he did. What we must focus on is how to be civil in civil society. A few months ago, a very great American Gandhian died – Representative John Lewis. He spent his whole life fighting for civil rights and he greatly admired Gandhi. He visited India several times and started a Gandhi trust in the States as well. And he said, “We must learn to disagree without being disagreeable.” Further to that, we must leave open the possibility that a person, younger than us or junior to us, can have a voice, be heard and persuade us, even if they have less experience. Working in an organisation, it’s important for leaders to not look for that kind of absolute servitude. We all have a burning desire, an ambition, or a sense of mission, with which we do our work, but Guha suggests that dialogue is absolutely crucial and people must feel like they can speak directly and have their voice heard. Gandhi also spoke about the beauty of compromise. In the late 80s and early 90s, there was an inspirational non-violent Gandhian movement, the Narmada Bachao Andolan led by Medha Patkar, who was Gandhian in every respect. But there was one Gandhian element she missed, says Guha. In our experience with large dams in independent India, we know that people who were dispossessed by them were never compensated properly or rehabilitated properly. There were questions about the longevity and the ecological implications of the dam. Cost-benefit analysis studies suggested that a series of smaller dams would be less destructive and more profitable than large dams. So there were major questions being raised and this inspirational non-violent movement brought the case to the attention of the Supreme Court. While the Supreme Court was hearing the case, two engineers in Pune developed a compromised solution which suggested a reduction in the dam’s height from 456 to 430, which would also reduce displacement by 70%. They urged the Narmada Andolan to tell the court about the compromise and to let the dam be built at a lower height, to minimise the suffering to the displaced people. But the Andolan refused. There is something to be learned from the Gandhian principle of the beauty of compromise, and it’s a lesson that every organisation leader should heed. Don’t be dissatisfied if you don’t meet all your dreams and expectations, because you never will. Small, incremental change is still a huge service to society. The drawback of a utopian thought is that by trying to transform all of society at once, you will most likely leave wreckage behind you, says Guha. This ties into what we call Societal Platform thinking, where we are not so concerned with change makers scaling their own organisations, but rather how all of us can scale our societal missions. If everyone was to take that one step, we would certainly see change happening at scale. We can learn a great deal about growing as individuals, developing organisations, collaborating, cooperating, improving, and self-questioning from Gandhi, even if our sphere of work is relatively modest compared to his. Unlike religious fundamentalists or Marxists, Gandhi did not believe in a perfect society. He was not a utopian, he was a reformist and an incrementalist. As he said, one step is enough for me. If you can revive a degraded water tank in a village in Karnataka and restore its ecological and social integrity, in Gandhi’s eyes you would be a hero. You don’t have to have a situation for all of Karnataka, or South India. One step is enough.
This is an edited version of Rohini Nilekani’s conversation with GurgaonMoms about her latest book, ‘The Hungry Little Sky Monster’ and how to inspire the love of reading in children.
‘The Hungry Little Sky Monster’ was inspired by my first grandson, Tanush. Many toddlers all over the world ask their parents about the moon and why it waxes and wanes. So I wanted to create a little fable for him and other children, especially in India, about the changing phases of the moon. It’s a book that allows parents to guide their children about the science of it, but it begins with a fantasy to draw children’s attention first. I contacted Chiki Sarkar about wanting to do this book with Juggernaut, and she was keen on doing a children’s line as well. So we got a marvelous illustrator on board and the result is a book that I hope toddlers will enjoy.
Growing up, I was lucky enough to spend my childhood between the pages of books. We used to go down to a little library called Kamal Circulating Book House and pick up whatever books we wanted, just for a few paisa. There was no internet, no computers, no mobile phones, and hardly any TV back then, so books were our main source of entertainment and enjoyment. I really wanted to democratise that joy that I had growing up, for the rest of India. I realised while I was working with the Pratham network that we had created lots of readers, but they didn’t have enough books to read. In India, we still have very few books for our 300 million children. A lot has changed over the last 15 years though, and many publishers are putting out books in a variety of languages. But back then, we set up Pratham Books to bridge this gap and put a book in every child’s hand.
Of course, things have also changed for parents nowadays. It’s especially difficult to be a parent in this digital age, when there are screens all around children, vying for their attention. We’re seeing the consequences of this, with the attention deficit syndrome that’s on the rise. I think parents shouldn’t be hard on themselves or anxious about what to do. Instead of trying to stop all the screens in a child’s life, it may be more effective to take a little extra effort to introduce physical books at a very early age in children’s lives. But even if your child is older, it’s never too late to get them reading. Research by the Literacy Trust, UK, shows that once you set a foundational habit of reading physical books, later on a mix of physical and digital is fine.
We should also encourage children to expand their horizons and explore different genres, but not in a way that seems like an imposition. For example, if I read something and told my children to read it, they will either refuse to or will say they hated it even if they didn’t. Instead, parents can leave books lying around somewhere prominently and see if it piques their interest. A parent’s job is to present diversity and introduce different areas that will open children’s minds. Some might be interested in space, others may want to learn more about oceans – whatever the case, it’s our job to gently lead them. Books can be a great way to do that, so that they can discover new and interesting things for themselves. We can’t dictate what our children read and they don’t have to read all genres at once. With books, parents can offer the ability to read fluently and decode meaning. The rest should be left up to children, to discover for themselves. It’s often counterproductive for parents to try and force their children to get interested in a certain subject or read certain books because it’ll only result in them rebelling.
There’s the flip side of this, where children get too involved in books and ignore social interaction. I was guilty of this as a child – I would begrudgingly do my chores and carry around the book I was reading as if my mother had mistreated me by telling me to stop reading for a while. Again, I think that if parents are too strict there’s a chance that children will be more stubborn and rebel, but books also shouldn’t come in the way of social interaction. Reading while eating is one of the biggest joys so I understand how children feel, and maybe that can become a treat on occasions rather than an everyday allowance.
Many parents aren’t readers themselves, but recognising that you want your child to be a reader is one of the biggest gifts you can give them. I would suggest introducing some age-appropriate books and read them yourself – even if you’re not a reader, you can read children’s books quite easily. It really helps children, especially young children, to see their parents engaging with stories and having conversations around the book. Your child will soon figure out what they like and don’t like, but keep a variety of books for them to choose from. It’s never too late to become a reader, even a reader of children’s books so parents should feel no guilt about not being readers themselves.
Being a reader who is exposed to literature at an early age can improve children’s prospects later in life. And research shows that even if your child is not an early reader or doesn’t enjoy reading growing up, there is still time for them to become one in their teens. Studies into the neuroplasticity of the brain shows that the brain can readjust itself and learn to do new things for a surprisingly long period of time, and teenage years fall within the age when there is still hyperplasticity in the brain. So there’s no need to despair if children aren’t keen on reading to begin with. They will be most swayed by their peers, so parents encourage being friends with other young readers or find a series or story that is really irresistible to the child. Either way, it’s important to remember that it’s never too late for anyone to become a reader.
In India, most of the books sold are written in English, some in Hindi. But we have hundreds of other languages and 150 million children in this country who know how to read in a regional language. They deserve wonderful books that they can afford to buy and are accessible. Through Pratham Books, we started that process and many other publishers also joined in. Today on Pratham Books’ StoryWeaver you can find books on Indian culture and art, absolutely free of cost and in up to 200 languages. So these rich resources are there for parents and children to enjoy. There’s a lot more scope as well, for Indian writers to write books for teenagers and young adults. And children are in need of great stories and good books. Through all my experiences at Pratham, Akshara Foundation, and EkStep, I met many children and wherever I would go, I’d carry books to distribute to them. Outside the forests, in the buffer zones, there are a lot of young children who don’t have any access to books or libraries so I always bring them books and sit with them, having conversations about the stories. Their questions and curiosity really inspire me to write.
We are a nation of storytellers. Stories have been passed from generation to generation, through an oral tradition. We have been telling the stories of the epics and of the history of the subcontinent to our children. Although text is very important in the 21st century, oral storytelling compliments the skills we need to develop to be lifelong learners. Listening has become such an important tool. Today, the world is so polarised and people don’t talk to each other across the divides of caste, community, politics, geography, etc. We have to break down these polarisations, and in order to do that, we have to be able to listen. We must develop this skill in the next generation as well, and what better way to listen than to listen to stories told by somebody whom you love at home? My grandmother was a marvelous storyteller – she used to tell us stories of Dnyaneshwar, Tukaram, and all the Bhakti Saints of Maharashtra. She used to make us weep every day, it was such a marvelous experience. It taught us empathy, how to listen, and it helped us to build a sense of the world. So start telling stories – you’re never too old to listen and never too young to tell a story.
Although a handful of Indian billionaire families have stepped up to help mitigate the pandemic’s fallout, India is yet to inculcate a culture of philanthropy among the super-rich
In 1918, an in!uenza virus emerged (probably in the US) that would spread around the world, and one of its earliest appearances in lethal form came in Philadelphia. Before that pandemic faded away in 1920, it would kill more people than any other outbreak of disease in human history.
One cannot know with certainty, but if the upper estimate of the death toll is true, as many as 8 to 10 percent of all young adults then living may have been killed by the virus. And they died with extraordinary ferocity and speed. Yet, the story of the 1918 in!uenza virus is not simply one of havoc, death, and desolation, of a society “ghting a war against nature superimposed on a war against another human society.
It is also a story of science, of discovery, of how one thinks, and of how one changes the way one thinks, of how amidst near-utter chaos a few men sought the coolness of contemplation, the utter calm that precedes not philosophising but grim, determined action.
When American author and historian John M Barry wrote these lines in his 2004 book, The Great In!uenza, about the spread of the Spanish !u and its impact on American society, he likely didn’t anticipate the relevance his research would have 16 years later.
Arguably, more so in the Indian context.
Barry writes about America of the early 1900s, when Europe dominated the “elds of medical science and research. Back then, many American schools handed out medical degrees to any student who attended lectures and passed examinations; others still did not care if students failed several courses and never touched a single patient—they still got through med school. Science and religion were at odds with each other.
Through the pandemic, an important theme that emerged for America was the sudden impetus in medical research and discovery, especially the work done at the Johns Hopkins and Rockefeller institutes. In a note that Bill Gates wrote on the book in May 2020, he says that among his big takeaways for Covid-19 from the book is that philanthropy has an important role to play.
“In fact, things could have been much worse if not for the gifts of John D Rockefeller, Johns Hopkins, and many other donors,” he writes. “These gifts fundamentally transformed American science and medicine in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, giving the country hundreds of thousands of well-trained professionals to treat those who fell ill from in!uenza and guide the public-health response.”
In a country where medical education is largely considered a racket and where a sizeable population is taken to believe that home remedies can steel them against Covid-19, could India stand to make similar gains from the pandemic?
Released in November, the EdelGive Hurun India Philanthropy List 2020 showed that Azim Premji maintained his top spot from last year with ₹7,904 crore in donations. According to the list, Premji, through the Azim Premji Foundation, Wipro and Wipro Enterprises, committed ₹1,125 crore towards the pandemic, in addition to their regular philanthropic initiatives. This amounts to Premji having donated ₹22 crore a day.
Next on the list are HCL Technologies’ Shiv Nadar (₹795 crore to various causes), and Reliance Industries’ Mukesh Ambani (₹458 crore across causes). Reliance Industries, in March, announced a ₹500 crore donation to the PM Cares Fund for Covid-19 relief, and ₹5 crore each to the chief minister’s funds of Maharashtra and Gujarat.
Thanks to the pandemic, total donations on the list increased by 175 percent in 2020, and the number of people who donated more than ₹10 crore rose from 37 to 78. Flipkart co- founder Binny Bansal is the youngest donor on the list at 37, and the “rst Indian to enter the list under 40.
“Not to take away from the families that have given signi”cantly, but a lot more needs to be done to address the real issues we are facing today,” says Neera Nundy, co-founder and managing partner, Dasra, a strategic philanthropy foundation. “Families will emerge and continue to grow in their relevance in how they shape philanthropy, especially in India. With the FCRA regulations, there’s a greater need to engage in local philanthropy.”
However, Nundy says the way in which family philanthropy will take shape in India will be di#erent from what Hopkins and Rockefeller did in the 1900s. “I don’t think it’s going to be about putting names on institutions. What Azim Premji has been able to do in response to the crisis, for instance, has been phenomenal. They have positioned themselves to go deep into communities and fund more grassroot change,” she adds. India is in a di#erent place for where the role of philanthropy is, she says. “How family philanthropy engages with civil society, and how civil society engages with our government for real change, that’s quite di#erent from the US context from when Hopkins did Hopkins.”
Family philanthropy, regardless, has a long way to go in India, experts agree. Culturally, Indians don’t believe in discussing their charity openly, which could also end up inspiring fewer people to put their money towards causes, for instance.
“We need much, much more philanthropy from the super wealthy. For example, only four of us have committed to the Giving Pledge in India,” says Rohini Nilekani, prominent philanthropist and founder-chairperson of the Arghyam Foundation, along with being the leading woman on the EdelGive Hurun list, with a ₹47-crore donation. Her husband, Infosys co-founder Nandan Nilekani, is number 7 with ₹159 crore given to charity. “There may be cultural reasons for this, which is “ne. But we need more people to come out transparently, come forward and say a portion of their wealth belongs to society. No society can tolerate a clutch of people so wealthy that it is not used back for society.”
While philanthropy is becoming something that rich people do in India, there’s a need to bring structure to the process, and to stress the urgency in coming forward. “India could actually lead the way if more of us band together,” adds Nilekani.“At “rst, everything was gloomy as this was an unprecedented global health crisis accompanied by a leadership and “nancial crisis, compounded by inequities in access to health care,” says Swati Piramal, vice chairperson, Piramal Group, which runs the Piramal Foundation. “Soon, it was clear that no one foundation could carry out e#orts alone; what was needed was the cooperation and collaboration with the government or allied foundations. The pandemic saw the work of public-private partnerships increasing signi”cantly.”
On the list, the Piramal family ranks number 6, having given ₹196 crore this year. Swati Piramal says she “nds inspiration in learning from giving in the West, including examples such as Bill and Melinda Gates and Warren Bu#et, and India has much to learn. “The Rockefeller Foundation, almost a century old, was perhaps America’s “rst foundation focussed on public health. Johns Hopkins is to date a leader in this sphere,” she says. “India also has a Public Health Foundation, but it is underfunded and needs more help from the government. Many public health foundations are needed to address future pandemics.”
Nilekani also believes that to solve any complex issue, the collaboration between samaaj (community), sarkar (government) and bazaar (industry) is key. Her foundation is working on a project called Societal Platform Thinking, which provides digital infrastructure to enable collaboration among various stakeholders to create impact at scale.
Swati Piramal, vice chairperson, Piramal Group, which runs the Piramal Foundation, “nds inspiration in learning from giving in the West “The philanthropy sector has changed during the pandemic, as we have seen civil society’s rapid response,” Nilekani says. “I’ve always believed that we need to invest in samaaj if we want to have a successful society and prosperous nation, so that bazaar and sarkar can be more responsive in public interest. If more people are active in their citizenship, wanting to create a better society for themselves and everyone, we are more likely to be successful when the next pandemic comes about—which, unfortunately, it will.”
As the US gained in public health, medical research and education during the Spanish !u, what areas can India stand to make such gains in? “There is no single area to focus on, but the pandemic has made clear that we cannot become an even remotely good society, strong economy or vibrant democracy unless we have a sound public health system. That should be big priority,” says Anurag Behar, CEO, Azim Premji Foundation. “Covid-19 has revealed in sharp detail that the disadvantaged and disenfranchised have been hurt disproportionately. And their distress continues, so matters such as tribal rights, gender justice, education and environment continue to be important.”
An unanticipated focus has been to uplift and support the lives of migrant workers. “The pandemic was a wake-up call for everybody to this issue, irrespective of their privilege,” Nundy says. “We saw families and business leaders converge to do something for the workers, as they began to view them as part of our own economic ecosystem. A few families leaned in in a signi”cant way to help provide them with safety nets. This is quite di#erent from relief work that goes on for natural disasters.”
According to Nilekani, now is the time to focus on societal resilience and social intelligence, so we can be better prepared for the next pandemic. A second area to look into is water and sanitation, closely linked to public health, and a third, to understand the relationship between human beings and wildlife, because zoonotic diseases will be part of our existence.
“The fourth opportunity, which Nandan is keen on, is to develop a national infrastructure for vaccine delivery, making sure it’s timely, open and inclusive,” she says. “Philanthropy can and should play a role here.”
The Azim Premji Foundation has worked across 400 districts to tackle the pandemic, involving an on-ground team of about 65,000 people. “This includes our own team members, those of partner organisations, our university alumni and government school teachers that we are engaged with,” Behar says. “The dedication, ingenuity, and courage, of the 65,000 people that I talked about, and many more such whom I am not familiar with, was just incredible. They have been working 24×7, often at risk to their lives.”
“But more importantly, we need to recognise that we need to transform things structurally such that this kind of heroism is not required,” he adds. “To paraphrase Bertolt Brecht, ‘unlucky is the society that is in the need of heroes’.”
“The gift of a reading life to a child is the best gift of all.” Philanthropist and children’s author Rohini Nilekani wouldn’t have put it better while describing how important it is for every child to enjoy reading and derive both knowledge and pleasure from it. She was speaking with HerStory, in connection with the release of her new children’s book for Juggernaut, The Hungry Little Sky Monster.
As the co-founder of Pratham Books in 2004, a leading non-profit bringing storybooks to children across India in their mother tongue languages, Rohini is consistently working towards fulfilling its dream of seeing a book in every child’s hand. As a children’s author, she has delightfully captured a young audience with her Sringeri Srinivas series, under the pen name Noni.
The Hungry Little Sky Monster, Rohini’s first children’s book foray outside Pratham, for children between 2-5 years old, wonders why the moon wanes, and is a small fable for children that speaks of a scenario where an imaginary sky monster is let loose. “This book was written for my then three-year-old grandson,” says Rohini, adding, “I have been writing children’s stories right from the time I was young for my nieces and nephews, and in that sense, I have had a continuous thread of storytelling for children in my life, which I really enjoy.”
A book for every child Co-founding Pratham Books seemed like a step in the right direction consistent with Rohini’s goal of making books accessible to every child in India. “Children’s publishing was so small in India at the time, that best-sellers sold only around 2,000-3,000 copies each. We had to actually create an ecosystem of children’s writers, and it allowed me to remember the old Rohini who used to write stories,” she recalls. Rohini is optimistic about children’s writing today. “In the last 15 years, the sector has really flourished. There are a lot of children’s publishers in India who are doing very innovative things. Pratham, in its new avatar of StoryWeaver, is reaching millions of children worldwide, with local, indigenous, and diverse content in many languages. Today, parents, teachers, and children have a tremendous choice of quality and quantity to choose from. The Juggernaut Kids’ List is also very exciting,” she adds.
The author also agrees that storytelling needs to be a continuous part of the curriculum, citing the example of the EkStep Foundation that she started along with her husband Nandan Nilekani where they work with the government for this purpose. The government’s platform, Diksha, will have many free stories available to children in India in different languages. She says, while they will not be connected to the curriculum, there will be QR codes in the textbooks that will be linked to hundreds of digital stories. “We are a nation of storytellers, and if children everywhere can have access to a story with just a click, we are close to meeting that societal goal.”
Children should read every kind of book What kind of books do children need to read? “Which is the best book? Every kind,” emphasises Rohini, adding, “When children read different types of books, they learn about the complexities of the world that is not just black and white but also grey. Different stories will help us to envelop these rich shades of grey and the nuances of life that will teach children to be sensitive, empathetic, and thinking adults.” Rohini also admits that while it may be easy to write a children’s book, it’s hard to get a children’s book right. “You can easily miss, and with all my books, some have succeeded, some may have not because different aspects have to come together – the words, the illustrations – you cannot moralise and yet you have to make your point. Children are picky, if they don’t like a book, they are not going to continue, they are the most dismissive of readers.”
She also recalls that while at Pratham, she had requested author-playwright Girish Karnad to write a children’s book and he declined saying it was scary to do so. “Litterateurs can write the most amazing books for adults, but it’s difficult to convince them to write children’s books,” she says with a laugh. Rohini also enjoys reading to her grandson who will soon turn four. “Luckily, my grandson was introduced to books at the age of six months. He has an eclectic sort of taste – from Richard Scarry to junior science. I have a whole wall of Pratham Books and I hope someday these books can be donated to a library,” she says.
This is an edited version of Rohini Nilekani’s conversation with KidsStopPress about her latest book, ‘The Hungry Little Sky Monster’ and her top tips to raise readers.
‘The Hungry Little Sky Monster’ is my 14th book for children, but it’s the first one I’ve published with Juggernaut and my first commercial book. It was inspired by my grandson – we used to always look at the moon together, so I wanted to create a new fable for little children about why the moon waxes and wanes. It was a great experience writing it and working with my marvelous editor and publisher, Chiki Sarkar. I hope that many children everywhere, especially in India, come to enjoy this story.
One of the best things you can do for your child is to get them reading early. A great time to start is when the mother is pregnant, so you could go to a bookstore and pick up many colourful story books while your child is in the womb and you’re relatively free. Then introduce books as early as possible. Many parents feel unsure about how to introduce their children to reading if they are not readers themselves, but I think taking the step of recognising the importance of reading for your child’s future is an achievement in itself. Parents can find good books and free resources like StoryWeaver, and encourage their children to begin their reading journey. But there’s no need to be anxious, this isn’t a performance test for parents. You won’t be able to have a joyful engagement reading with your child if you are anxious about it. Children also pick up reading at different stages. Some may not like reading to begin with but will suddenly catch up when they’re eight or nine, so there’s no need to put pressure on them. Reading is really about joy, it’s not an exam. So get a variety of books and help your child maintain the habit of reading, and encourage them to gift books forward to others as well.
Young parents today have a particularly difficult job this year, in parenting children and juggling screen time. Many parents are concerned about screen time but I would say that every generation has to deal with a new technology which seems daunting but it doesn’t have to be. We can place boundaries on how much screen time a child needs, but if you have already introduced your child to physical books, research shows that it doesn’t matter if they read on a screen to sustain their reading habit. Once they have learned how to read and have inculcated that curiosity in themselves, reading stories on screens is fine.
Reading as a child is also important because books really shape the person you grow up to become. I spent my childhood between the pages of books. They transported me to all kinds of adventures and I learned about life through books. There is so much research to show that even if a child is exposed to one book, compared to a child who has not been exposed to any books, just in that delta there’s a vocabulary difference of 300,000 words. So books give us the opportunity to expand our vocabulary and expand our understanding of the world. They help us make better choices by teaching us that life is not black and white. Books allow you to understand nuance, so you become a thinking adult when you grow up. So books are important, stories are very important, and letting your imagination fly is extraordinarily important for children to retain their curiosity and creativity later in life.
I used to read a lot of Enid Blyton because the children in her books seemed to have a lot of agency in their lives. They could do things like solve mysteries. So I think the idea of a child’s agency influenced me when I read those books. Questions about justice were embedded in me when I read ‘To Kill a Mockingbird’. I also remember reading a Hans Christian Andersen book called ‘The Little Match Girl’ when I was very young, and I cried for days because it was such a sad story. Something must have happened in my psyche because when I was 12, I went through a kind of spiritual phase and started memorising verses from the Bhagavad Gita thinking about philosophical questions, and that brought me to Tolkien. So many books influenced me growing up and I explored different genres as well.
The good news is that India now has a vast spectrum of amazing writers who are talented and write diverse stories in every kind of genre. So that is a marvellous thing for young readers today. But there’s also scope for so much more. When we set up Pratham Books in 2004, our aim was to have an impact on the children’s publishing industry as a whole, and today we’re seeing dramatic innovation, but I also wish publishers would be more innovative in their distribution networks. We need to find new ways to crack the distribution model, otherwise how are we going to improve access and price? If you improve distribution, more people will buy books, which means they can be produced at a cheaper price, reaching even more people – it’s a positive cycle. There are some wonderful examples in America, especially First Book USA, where they’ve created a platform where many publishers join in to give discounted books for impoverished children. So innovation is the need of the hour.
There are some things that I believe in giving in abundance and books is one of them. But at the same time, parents should remember that young children often like to go back to the same book again and again. So even if you give a child 50 books, don’t worry if out of those 50, he reads only two over and over, because that’s how they internalise things. Books must be in abundance as long as the child is finding joy in them. But if we have over-satiated desires in terms of material things, then we forget to explore. So now moms do really ingenious things like saying, “Okay, if you want the next toy, you have to give some old toys away, or we have to give some things back.” So make these trade-offs in a creative way, and sometimes children can help you find that creative balance themselves.
In terms of age groups, it’s okay to get books ahead of your child’s age. But parents should make sure that their child is able to read the text and decode it properly. After that, it shouldn’t matter what books you give them, because if you can read a paragraph fluently, you can decode increasingly complex stories. Once they are independent readers, they will be driving what they should read, and you should quickly get to that stage if you can. Luckily, there’s so much choice and diversity. Get bilingual books as well and expose your child to as many languages as possible because it’s a real advantage for the future. Audiobooks are also marvelous – we are a country of oral storytellers and your grandmother’s stories falling on your ear is complimentary to your reading journey. It creates an ecosystem that encourages a sustained reading life.
